EsuriJohn

Hola all found it:-

ENTIDAD URBANISTICA DE CONSERVACION DE COSTA ESURI

CALL TO THE ANNUAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY

All owners of plots, properties and facilities included in the urban development of the Sector 1 Partial Plan of Costa Esuri, Ayamonte, are hereby called to the EUC’s General Assembly to be held on the 30th of March 2012, at 17:00 on first call and at 18:00 on second call in the Casa Grande, C/Huelva n º 31 (Ayamonte).

AGENDA


1.- Reading and approval of the previous minutes.

2.- Submission of the annual accounts for 2011 and approval of the same, if this may be the case.

3.- Management report on activities.

4.- Approval of the budget for 2012.

5.- Q&A



NOTE.- Owners in Urbanizations will be represented by their president or any other person appointed by the community (art. 9.3 of the Statutes). Proxies for both legal persons and individuals will be stated in notary deed (art. 20 of the Statutes).

The Annual Accounts for 2011 and the Budget for 2012 will be available on the EUC’s web page (www.euccostaesuri.com). They will also be shown on the Town Hall’s Notice Board.

Owners and intercommunity’s that have not paid the EUC’s quotas, are not entitled to vote.



The President

Mr. F. Alvarez Rubiño



There you have it then practically no one can vote except The President, perhaps a few plot owners whose % is so small that their vote does not count and Fadesa who even if they have only paid for one property such as the Golf Clubhouse or West Course outvote everyone else.

Of course the number of plot owners who are up to date with their fees are probably not in Ayamonte on the 30th March and to make it more expensive and difficult their Proxy has to be Notarised!

Greg Holliday

Hi all,

Does anyone know if Martinsa Fadesa have paid all their fees???? They certainly owed fees whilst in administration.

Greg

EsuriJohn

It would be almost impossible to find out. Fadesa had many land owning companies (my plot only 1000 sq m was sold to me by 2 companies neither had the name Fadesa (but it was Fadesa staff and Fadesa Lawyers who attended the Notario to sign the completion papers with me) as subsidiaries. No doubt this was a tax avoidance arrangement. It now gives them the added advantage that they can pay their proportion for some and not others. So for instance they could pay for say the golf clubhouse but not the commercial center. East but not West course etc. where they still own plots, houses and apartments they would owe community,intercommunity and EUC fees. There appears to be evidence from all except EUC THAT SOME THEY PAY AND SOME THEY DON' T. The EUC accounts and budgets are published on their website but are impenitrable so knowing what is owed and what has been spent is anybody's guess. Last year close questioning at the AGM seemed to elicit that although the accounts showed a deficit of €25,000 there seemed to be about €1 million missing in unpaid fees.

Communities and intercommunities publish lists of debtors usually on a list in the entrance foyer the EUC DON'T DO ANYTHING OF THAT KIND anywhere that I can find!

Carol&John

Check the date: 30th March 2012.

Jon-Bxl

What an open and transparent organisation run (presided over) by the town hall and the developer. Residents are not properly represented, can't vote because of the rules, which don't apply to the board - in the way they wrote 'em!!! I was criticised by a couple of people (on the Jags thread) when I suggested that Spain had a bad reputation for corruption. Their criticism wasn't effective, and didn't work. I produced some proof for my conclusions. Now switch on the TV and look at the massed protests against government (and royalty) corruption in Spain. That's the people talking - not another expat.

Now look at how the EUC operate - not transparent, 'rules for the boys' etc etc !! And the local authority puts their stamp on this by being the president!! In this environment it can't help for them to be seen as supporting this organisation.

We expats are seen as an easy touch in CE.... and in Europe the Brits are seen as 'rule followers'. Once we sign up for something we try and stick to it. Look at some of the stuff going on in the EU from other countries that have signed and ignore the rules - its shocking!

In the EUC the Brits tend to pay their bills - even though there is a huge suspicion of the organisation. We are therefore a 'soft touch' - myself included - I pay by direct debit. In the UK we wouldn't hand over the dosh without a LOT more transparency... and I suspect it would be better controlled.

With the new influx of Spanish in CE, who 'know the rules' - it would be interesting to see how many of them pay the EUC bill - not out of stinginess, but out of complaint/distrust of the organisation. They probably have a better understanding (generalising here) of how committed we really should be to this organisation and how to put maximum pressure on an organisation that has its own rules and 'ways of doing things'.

The most effective way to change is NOT to pay, take away their financial power and make then earn the money! Step 1 100% transparency.

I am hoping that CERA will be the guiding force to help us 'understand' the EUC and to advise us on next steps for improvement. For me as a member, I see this as the major objective of CERA. But its a TOUGH job run by volunteers

For example, I certainly would join an official protest and cancel the EUC DD once there was a structured plan... or some other initiative. I already know quite a few people who refuse to pay.... and apparently there is a fine of only 2-3% for late payment (is that true?) I'd even pay the fine if a period of non payment leads to a change of operating practices of the EUC... AND they might get a bunch of withheld monies as well from many others!

That would benefit ALL of us - though, perhaps, not the board!

Jon

PS
TWELVE grand on a little shed!

MikeJ

I believe that the fine is monthly and compounded (and it's a legal requirement so you could end up with a Spanish criminal record). But if you understand the downsides then go for it!

EsuriJohn

Now here is an interesting insight. I have just managed to sort out the increased IBI for my house on my plot. The Ayuntamiento took 3 yrs to give the new value to the Gestion Tributaria (GT) the back additional costs were substantial plus 3 yrs Basura. We ended up owing a large amount with prospect of another large IBI/Basura for 2013 so we asked if we could spread the cost. Yes there is the possabity and we are paying over 6 mths. No fines added but you do have to pay interest. Separately we also found on the GT file a special tax of €300 that was 3 years old that had not been notified to us and we knew nothing about and even now don't know what it is for. It could not be added to the other big bill and had to be paid in one go. It attracted fines on a daily basis plus interest so we ended up paying €334 about 10% pa compounded.

All this has caused me to look closely at the functions and scope of the GT. They now have a new website with which gives you access to all legal local taxes that have to be paid. To do this you need to have a digital signature I have obtained mine. That allows me to look at my files. There is now nothing outstanding. When the new period to pay July-September opens it will allow us to see all legal taxes - IBI, Basura and Car Tax (EUC is not there).

I do not think the failure to pay local taxes is a criminal offence rather it becomes a charge on the property as a last resort. The EUC does not seem to be a property tax but some other category. People who have so far not paid do not seem to have attracted fines or interest

MEL & JOHN

Thanks for that insight John, I am gutted we "did the right thing" in the first place and paid. I know many that do not and I wish we hadn't. When the EUC set up there was talk of offices on CE which is a complete waste of money and at that time I wrote and objected. We need many services on CE BUT not that. I have said that we will not pay anymore becuase of the wasted expense and the fact that CE is not tended to, by the EUC, as it should be. However, I am a scardy-cat, a worrier and we are the type of folk who prefer to pay our dues and I feel that as we have been paying that to stop we would be an obvious target for fines, interest charges etc etc....but we just feel ripped -off.

EsuriJohn

Yes we did the same but we know others who on principal have not paid anything since Isla Canela had their EUC suspended by the Ayuntamiento when there was mass non payment. I do know that the EUC is provided for in the Law on Horizontal Property but it would seem that not all local authorities enforce it. That it happened here so quickly could be that to do with Fadesa's period in Administration.

Like you with the exception of the gardening service I see no visible benefit for my nearly €300 pa. the roads were and are still very poor. Also what happened to the Bank Guarantee's worth several millions of euro that the Deputy Mayor said was going to be enforced. They should be for finishing works at Esuri and only that but where have they gone?

Jon-Bxl

Hi Mike

If you have something in writing that says its compounded, then pls post it..........

It sounds too much - even for the EUC rule makers - who control everything!!!

You have your finger on the pulse for this sort of thing.... but I hope its a bit different,it does seem a huge penalty compared to the rest of the IC and Community charges ....... especially as unpaid payments are transferred to the next owner...... Fadesa would not sell anything if that was the case.

If its compounded, and if one has a good lawyer, ( be careful - our Ayamonte lawer upset us SO much) ............ MF would either have to pay these compounded charges before selling............... or not sell at all.

Therefore I doubt that they put that clause in the agreement!!!

Jon

Jon-Bxl

The more we talk about this the more messy it is and the more suspicious all this is. The officials say one thing, to save face in the short term, and then forget it. Why? because we effectively don't have a vote! Even though many of us pay.

They do of course even though they haven't paid up fully!!! Sewn up - and/or is it 'stitch-up'??

We can still stop payment going forwards, if there is a small fine at the end. In fact there may even be a solution where the EUC is closed down for a better organisation... no fines just a call for withheld funds to kick start a better organisation. I'd put the money aside and then immediately hand it over if this could make things more transparent - or a new organisation formed. If its 3% annual compounded its only actually a few (expensive) beers.... well worth saving the liver for

This however would need a concerted action, and a lot of organising and I wouldn't put that burden on anybody!

This is what the 'powers' hope for - inaction.

Jon

laslopeady

Hi
I paid the first bill but have not paid since. They keep sending me bi-annual bills but so far no interest.
I agree , we get nothing for it and think everyone should default.
Regards
Laslopeady

EsuriJohn

MY APOLOGIES I THOUGHT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN POSTED ON THE EUC WEB PAGE SO JUST GRABBED THE TOP OF THE LIST. I WAS WRONG!!

The new date is March 22nd 2013 at 18.00 for 19.00

All other details seem to be the same.

Jon-Bxl

Hi John

Lets just muse a bit..... pipe dream.....

As a CERA founder, I wonder if an EUC non-payment protest could be considered by CERA?

It does hinge on the penalty payments for non-payment however, if we could find this out it would really help. I suspect there aren't big penalties as MF would then have to pay them!!

I realise its a lot of work, (we're 'musing'!) but I would definitely join the non-payment group, withholding payment till 4-5 things were agreed + implemented by the EUC board. We could discuss those things and present them to them. On the list would (IMHO) be transparency going back and forward, accounts detailed and open to view, COMMON rules for voting rights for non-payers/payers and no special rules for MF (i.e same rules for everybody - especially late payment fees etc - no get out for them - we all pay the same penalty) etc etc. TBD we can discuss those later once we consider the next bit :- >>

Since CERA is a legal entity, I would even send my EUC payments to CERA, and commit to being responsible for any late fines on our property. We could come up with a simple formula for the comment field in the foreign transfer so that we could identify every individual payment. (I can even download these from my various internet banking a/c's to a spreadsheet - easy! Hopefully CERA's bank would have a similar system)

This way the sum of money building up at CERA - available to the EUC - would be a very visible indication of our desire to pay (errrrr we've already parted with the cash!!) If our 4-5 requirements are reasonable - and they will be, there would be a very public reason for the EUC to concur THEN IMPLEMENT... and get the money.

Hopefully many would buy into this and the weight of dosh will 'do the talking'... and the fear of negative publicity as well. After all we would be reasonable in our requirements! (And perhaps the late fines could then be voted out/excused in this specific case)

Before a lot of work was actually done we could canvass members and see if they think it is a good idea - if we get a groundswell (and I hope we would) we could go for it...

I do see managing the EUC as a primary objective of CERA (IMHO). Thats what they did in Canela, for example......


Just an idea.. will take my pipe to bed tonight

Jon

MikeJ

Sounds like a plan. However, ISTR at the last EUC AGM (which I attended) the debtors in the privately owned property sector was <7% and by far the largest debtors were the developers - specifically TASA and then a couple of other developers before Fadesa (so Fadesa weren't even the largest). So that means that the private owners - even if all withold - have very little leverage in the scheme of things.