The caliphate of Andalus.
 

The news that we now have the caliphate of Andalus startled me when I read of it a few days ago. It startled me because I live in it, apparently without knowing it.

But it sounded familiar and I looked up some old Spanish history books. It's not new at all, the caliphate existed for hundreds of years, hundreds of years ago.

It wasn't a cruel place as the Western media seem to be implying Isis is trying to establish in a large part of Syria and Iraq, it was a benign place more famous for its culture than wars and beheadings.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

Here's the map proving it.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/...00_634x381.jpg

I'm glad it's a benign, peaceful, cultured place - I'm sure everything will be OK.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

Lots of writing about the Muslim period. Much of it is tendentious or biased.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Spain

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

I wonder if the Caliphate will be easier to live in than present day Spain (for guiris)?

I live in fear of bulldozers flattening my property for no reason or motorways being built across my garden, at my cost. They are trying to tax me for money I earned the hard way in Scotland and England long before I ever came to Spain.

I'm constantly required to sign and pay for daft bits of paper nobody wants to see. If they think I owe money to anyone for anything, they just take it out of my bank account.

I wonder if the Caliph Abu something can do any better?

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

It sounds like you've had enough. Time to come here methinks.

As for the Caliphate in Spain many years ago I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been anything like as harsh as ISIS intends for the Middle East.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

I suspect a lot of guiris will be influenced by whether or not drinking will be allowed and, in the case of females, whether their nether regions will be left intact.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

Hanging on to their ha'penny will be the least of their problems.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

there hasn't been a Caliphate since 1031 when Hisham III died. The caliphate disintegrated and mostly became Emirates. The most famous of which was probably that of the Nasrid's in Granada. But that ceased to exist on 2 Jan 1492 when Muhammad XII (also known as Boabdil - the Spanish version, but then the Spanish always change people's names to suit their own ends).

why not go back to the British Empire, why not Queen Elizabeth II regain the French territories that were lost centuries ago. The only problem with France being the Frenchmen that live there ;)

As "successful" as ISIS claims to be it will take decades if not centuries to achieve what they are suggesting. If they are allowed to succeed.
But it is odds on many living in the UK who would be willing to try to add that to the inventory. :thumbdown:

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

Weren't the Emirs answerable to the Kaliphs,,,,,,, sorry can't find question mark on this spanglish keyboard. Probably talking out of my hat!!
M

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

I think you need to fiddle about with the language setting for the keyboard (teclado) which I have set to ES. It still allows you to type in English. :)

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

Different sect of Islam, the practices you refer to were not practiced in Spain or much of the Islamic world at that time.
Nor in fact is FGM part of the majorty of the Muslim world.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

not when you haven't had a caliph for a couple of hundred years
;)

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

I don’t know the date of this map, but it makes a lot more sense than the re-drawn maps currently in use and causing the current conflicts right round the region.

The Isis rebels, or freedom fighters, seem to want their own Islamist state under Sharia law in a large area of lawless Iraq and Syria. Hundreds of thousand of people have died so far, millions have fled and the idea of western style democracy is just a sick joke.

I doubt if its within our (Western Christian) control, but wouldn’t it solve our problems if such a Caliphate was established in the Middle East? If nothing else it would be an easy target for our drones.

And if our dissatisfied Islamist youth, like those from Cardiff, wanted to go and live there, let’s encourage them, help them on their way, maybe even force them to live there?

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

Seeks like a good idea - there's got it be something wrong with it. Are we happy that the new caliphate will include Spain and Greece?

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

No, this new Caliphate would be the one for Syria and Iraq that has just been proclaimed by the freedom fighters, Spain and Greece are functioning democracies and part of the EU which will defend them should they be attacked by Islamists.

As functioning democracies, the people will have a vote and could vote for an Islamist party should they wish. On the other hand, if the people vote for a right wing nationalist party, as they have done in the past, and that party wants to deport Islamic dissidents to a country where they belong, like this new Islamist country, then that should happen.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

Agreed

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

I can think of some good reasons for deportation, but dissidence?

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
and what are they actually fighting for freedom from ?
The "lawless" areas only became "lawless" when these people stepped in from somewhere, filling a vacuum that really didn't exist.
and if their current actions are an indication of Sharia Law in operation - what happened to that peace loving religion ??
n or wherever, they will be back, they will have the cred, will find it easy to gain followers.
just would like to know what they are dissatisfied with.:huh:
I don't remember those who went off to fight in Spain in the 1930's coming back with a view to spread mayhem and death in their wake.


it is my understanding from the press reports they wish to cover the whole lot inside 5 years - including Greece and Spain.
there is no intention of using the voting box, there will only be one party that of the AK47.
And how many of those who have been tied up and forced to kneel to the AK47 before being shot actually had a vote ???

many thousands of people gave their lives for freedom from tyranny and oppression 70 years ago. whilst there have been bumps along the way that period of relative peace we can expect to be shattered.

I really do not see that the EU is in any fit state to protect any member country, unless it is France or Germany, especially those who are on the Med.
But at least everyone will have to have a cognac for breakfast.

anyone know where I can get a couple of guns and a large box of ammunition before the price sky rockets.??

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

I've been practising ;)

.357 revolver, but expected to use it defending the frontier against hoards of ex-pats fleeing Spain :ohmy:

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

You'll have to point it the other way Fred - Isis will obviously want to impose the caliphate on Spain by invasion via the easy routes and Gib is one of the easiest.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

They've been here before, but I believe they are not good swimmers!

711 invaded by Tariq ibn Ziyad (Arabic: طارق بن زياد‎, died 720) was a Muslim general who led the Islamic conquest of Visigothic Hispania in 711–718 A.D
The name "Gibraltar" is the Spanish derivation of the Arabic name Jabal Ṭāriq (جبل طارق), meaning "mountain of Tariq"

Finally left in 1462

Returned in 1969 to replace the Spanish when they closed the frontier, some are still here today with British nationality all living in peace and harmony.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

If we take the big countries of the EU, the UK, Germany and France, they have one thing in common - a sizeable and growing part of the population who want to stop further immigration and if possible get rid of immigrants already in the country. They have UKIP, AfD and Le Pen all with the same object in mind and all directed against one particular type of immigrant, the militant Islamists.

Those parties have never had a place to deport their undesirable militants to, until now, until the formation of the Iraqi/Syrian Caliphate, the newly created natural home for Islamists. If the Syrian and Iraqi administrations agreed to the formation of this Caliphate, our Islamists from Cardiff and elsewhere in Europe could travel to the new territory without AK 47s, there would be no need for them.

We would no longer need to watch hundreds of them in the UK in case they tried to blow us up, we could even buy them one-way tickets to their new country and at long last close our borders to stop them returning.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

whilst not disagreeing with you - I must express concern for the fluffy bunnies who will be throwing themselves under the buses to try to stop their expulsion. Not that they wouldn't be motivated by their loss of income from the Legal Aid pot for multiple tenuous appeals.

.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

But Spain is in a different situation ?????

'We will take Spain back': Syrian jihadists

'We will take Spain back': Syrian jihadists - The Local

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

Not only militant Islamists. These people - well UKIP anyway - are also concerned about Poles, Bulgarians and, particularly in the case of Farage, Romanians. I suppose they'll just send them back too.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

Farage is a Huguenot. Can we send him back too ?

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

The big countries in Europe have big problems with the militant Islamists; they may by definition not be sympathetic to other foreigners in their midst, but the Islamists are the avowed enemy. You can’t compare those Islamists to Poles or Romanians.

I don’t want to be ridiculous in my perambulations, this will probably get wiped or ridiculed, but if the state of Israel had been established 20 years earlier, the worst atrocities in our world may not have happened.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

Whilst not disagreeing with your logic I fail to see how or where the State of Israel would fit between the wars.

Sadly it took WW2 to force the issue of a homeland.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

It’s quite easy to get blasé after a while. ‘Let the silly Arabs get on with it – they’ve been squabbling with each other for hundreds of years’.

That’s what I thought this morning until I watched the news. I need to travel to the US again, it’s of financial benefit to me. I vowed never to return after some hassle with those fat and smelly monsters from homeland security.

It now appears the security checks are going to get even worse. I don’t know if I can handle those horrible people touching me again, I really don’t. I don’t know if the money can compensate me for even having to look at those horrible people, never mind answering their stupid questions.

Travelling from Madrid doesn’t help, you seem to be immediately relegated to third world status. I think I’ll stay where I am.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

in their eyes Israel doesn't exist, and will not in a couple of years time according to the game plan.
perhaps a bitter pill or piece too large to swallow that will delay plans for Spain by a year or two

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

The one time I flew to America (many years ago and hopefully never again) one of the questions I was asked on the questionnaire I was given to fill in during the flight was...

'While in the USA do you intend to have sexual relations with any underage children?'

...and I'm honestly not paraphrasing much.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

I've heard similar before - incredible!
Seems as though their stupidity is infectious, judging by some of the drivel on our adjacent forum.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

It’s hard to imagine a people of a religion not having a homeland because of their religion. Jewish people have been hounded out of various countries over the centuries and have only recently had a homeland to return to.

The militant Muslims similarly have not had a homeland as such and this new country in Syria and Iraq should serve the same purpose as the state of Israel.

It’s a human emotion to get rid off our troublesome people and killing them would be too barbaric. So we sent our undesirables, our thieves, to Australia and our religious nuts to America, both places where they have since thrived.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

I understand that these people want a Islamist state governed by whatever interpretation of Sharia Law they choose. If I thought that for a minute such a state could exist in isolation or would provide a long term solution to the region then I would give it more thought.

But their ambitions are greater. They don't just want an Islamist state for themselves they want everyone else to join the party.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

The game plan is their own, The Sephardic jews will outnumber the rest within 2 generations. The Israeli Arabs will probably have tripled and the real owners of the land will probably be around 20million. As the saying goes born of the sword......... Probably best to nukem all and not wait, TA, D,B,A,C etc. etc.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

Then it will be following Israel as a state founded on religion and not on more esoteric grounds.
Like everyone else they have the opportunity to win the heart and minds of the electorate and win them round. To do it by using the AK47 as a polling card is not acceptable. Nor is wanting to take boundaries back to the Middle Ages with Middle Ages diplomacy but using the same AK47.

So who is funding these people ??
Is this Al Qaeda funded and controlled from the background ??

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

Funding is not a problem, Muslim banks are awash with money for reasons not necessarily relevant to this discussion.

What is relevant is the fear Isis is spreading around it's sphere of influence. The Iraqi border guards on the Saudi border have fled and the Saudis have had to move 30,000 soldiers to guard a silly border in a silly desert where nobody lives.

Isis is terrifying its opponents.

We don't understand what is happening in that part of the world, we haven't got a clue. All we can sensibly do is guard our homes in the UK. I saw the news about shootings in Birmingham earlier today involving Somalis or similar foreigners.

This needs to stop. These people need to be sent back to where they come from.

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

That may be too late. We have already put so many through the "tick-the-box" test on Britain and it's way of life, made them "citizens" and given them passports.
208,000 passports handed to migrants in one year | Mail Online
208,000 passports given to immigrants last year.

and how many £millions are spent on legal aid with appeal after appeal whilst the individual lives in the community and builds up a binding relationship with a cat.

But I am not saying I disagree with your sentiment, just waiting for the rabbit warren to open up and to be hit with the R pointy finger.

`

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

"Citizens"? Is this a new classification which is different from citizens?

Re: The caliphate of Andalus.
 

Saudi for one, after all these are Sunnis and true followers of the Prophet Mohammed............ and probably the Gulf states pass them a buck or two as well. The Saudis will provide lip service to the US but their hearts and wallets will be supporting ISIS or their ilk wherever in the world.