livingonbeans

Hi,

I am after a bit of advice. Me and my wife are currently looking to buy a house in Andalucia, Spain. We have previously lived in Spain for 3 years whilst working in Gibraltar, so think we've got a pretty good idea how things work.

We've found a house we like, and have had an offer accepted, and now are starting the motions in getting the purchase sorted. When I spoke to the vendor today and asked for his solicitor details he informed me he wasn't going to use one as he didn't deem it necessary. This then got me wondering if we needed to use one ourselves.

Obviously every person is different, but this is our situation with the house/personal situation. We are buying a town house for 50k euros from an old English guy who has lived there for the last 18 years without a mortgage, and only wants to move as he wishes to be closer to the coast. The vendor is very genuine, and seems a very nice and honest guy. When looking around his house he was pulling out all the original paperwork, deeds receipts etc...and just in general I feel we can trust him. We do not require a mortgage and are paying cash, something else which makes me think the transaction may be easier than a normal purchase. We've been given a bilingual solicitor based in Gibraltar who our friends used, and she has quoted us £1,000, as this is her minimum charge. I'm not sure if this is reasonable or not, but I suppose in proportion to the house, this is actually quite a lot.

We currently do not have an NIE or bank account, and this was going to be something the solicitor was going to sort on our behalf as we are in the UK and she was including it in her fee. We are however in Spain for 1 week from Thursday, so if we decide against using her, maybe we can get the ball rolling, however I don't think we'd be able to get the NIE and bank account sorted in one week, any thoughts?

Usually I'd never consider purchasing without a solicitor, however due to the nature of the buyer, the price of the house, the fact we have no mortgage and that the current owner being debt free I'm not sure if its necessary.

I'd appreciate any advice/help on the matter.

Thanks a lot!

Rosemary

Hi and a warm welcome to the Spanish forum on BE. Myself and Fred James are the moderators for the Spanish forums whilst BEVS moderates Europe. Moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. This is so that members gain the information that they are looking for and find their experiences on the forums to be friendly and worthwhile.

Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderator who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are usually friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge about the issues of living in Spain. I hope that you enjoy your time participating in the forums.

Please let me know if you need any further help.

Rosemary

MikeJ

There was a showing this very evening of some people who had purchased, in Andalucía, without double and triple checking the legality of the property and face having their house bulldozed - at their expense. An old story but none the less an object lesson on what can go wrong if you try to save a ha'porth of tar puts the whole ship at risk.

The Andalucía Junta have different zoning rules to many Local Town Halls and the Junta takes precedence. Likewise central government set the legal framework. Can you be sure that you can understand and comply with all these levels of legality without the aid of a good solicitor - and I stress good, even UK based where they have a duty of care and can be sued for recompense if they get it wrong, not always so in Spain.

Otherwise good luck to you and I'm sure there will be loads of fingers crossed that you don't get the official notice of 90 days to demolish maybe years down the line and maybe years of expensive litigation. Note that the vendor does not have the risk that you do so I wouldn't set much store by his example.

livingonbeans

No I know what you're saying, and to be honest I was 80/20 going to get a solicitor. I just thought I'd put the thread on here to see what sort of responses I got.

The solicitor is based in Gibraltar, however has come very highly recommended from 2 friends who have used her services to buy property in Spain, and having spoke to her for a good hour I do think she knows her onions. However would you say £1k gbp is a fair price for a house only worth 50k euros? Obviously there is still a minimum charge involved, however I'll be honest in saying I haven't shopped around with solicitors and have just gone on two strong recommendations.

With regards to the house being knocked down. The house is actually 3 hours from the coast in a small white city, well town really to the English folk, and is 1 in a row of town houses that has stood for the last 100 years, so would like to think that this is pretty safe.

bobd22

Never sold a house in Spain but I believe it is unlike the UK where both parties have solicitors in Spain often just the buyer has the solicitor because they do all the legal checks etc (or should) the seller doesn't need that and buyers solicitor sorts it out? I may of course be wrong. Certainly as a buyer you need a good independant solicitor.

chrisjolly

First you can get the NIE started and bank account sorted in a very short time. Thats not a problem. As far as using a lawyer or anyone who is conversant with transfer of property laws is concerned then the only useful thing is paying the required taxes. If you are sure you can do that, check all the paperwork and check the ownership then do it yourself.
Go into the local Town Hall and talk to them about the property and see that all the bills have been paid. Check water, electricity, basura, IBI bills have been paid. Good luck..sounds a bargain.

avocados

lawyer is a waste of money (no responsibility for anything that goes wrong).

But it means that you need to know about catastro, nota simples, etc.

Maybe look for a gestor, who might assist you for a couple of hundred.

We bought without abogado. At the notary, I had to correct one of the documents provided by the bank's legal entity. So it's all about knowledge (which you won't find on this forum). Research the FACTS and not opinions.

Good Luck.

snikpoh

Like @avocados just said - you don't need a lawyer. All you need is a good conveyancer.

In the UK, whilst you might think that you're engaging a solicitor, in actual fact you're not. They tend to pass the work on to a junior clarke or someone employed solely for conveyancing - they do all the legal checks just like in Spain.

livingonbeans

So, how would I go about getting the bank/NIE done, is this something that can be done in a 3 days trip?

Also, I'm hearing that it may be worth getting a gestor as they can be very helpful, and at a lot less of an expense than a lawyer. Do you know how I would go about finding one of these?

Thanks

Mitzyboy

I'm sure the above advice is sound. It IS true to say that in the UK you are actually using a conveyancer, but within the wrapper of a solicitors company.

The question you have to ask yourself ...... is would you buy a house in the UK without using a solicitor, knowing the system and the language. (As opposed to buying in Spain and not knowing the system or the language)

However ..... I have been a member on this site since 2006. I have seen so many stories of people buying houses without solicitors in Spain that have gone horribly wrong. Does anyone remember the story of the couple who bought a house in Spain, but a mortgage had been taken out on it the day the sale went through that they were then responsible for? The properties in Andalucia that were illegal builds, and some bought without realising that? The list is endless

My only advice ... and it's the advice that has been given on this site and otheres for as long as I can remember .... is reduce your risk because it is your hard earned money that is going in to this and if it all goes to crap, you may struggle to get it back. The cost to me would be worth it for peace of mind.

So I would always say use a good solicitor. Use one that is not recommended by the agent or the seller. The seller doesnt have the same risk as you, hence he is not using one.

Even my well respected gestor in Gandia always recommended using a solicitor for your house purchase .... after all, they have trained for a very long time to be expert in the field.

At the end of the day it's your choice and decision .... take as many precautions as you can to make sure all goes according to plan ...... or don't

Moses2013

I would never buy without, whatever you want to call it (Solicitor, Lawyer, gestor). If you're buying a house (no matter what price), €1500 is not a lot of money and that's including architects survey. A good trusted firm will offer you the whole package ( get NIE numbers, translate documents incl. apostille certification), so no need to travel.

snikpoh

You already have an NIE - from when you were here previously. So that's half the battle already.

For the bank, this MUST be done in person when you get here. Either with a passport for a non-resident account or with an NIE for a resident one.

[See previous posts.]

Moses2013

I can only post this again from Peter Esders:

Do I need a lawyer when buying a property abroad?
Asking this question of a lawyer always surprises me. However, my answer is equally surprising – no you don’t. There is no legal requirement to use a lawyer when buying in either Spain – or in the UK, for that matter.

Statistics show that in the UK 97% of people would use a lawyer when buying a property, yet for some reason the same logic seems to go out of the window when people go abroad.

No, you don’t need a lawyer, but how on earth people think that they can buy a property in a foreign country where they probably don’t know the legal system or even the language is beyond me.

MikeJ

It's not just the planning permission, which can be a nightmare in themselves - any extensions, pools etc - are they properly licenced? There is also the question of title - Spanish inheritance is very different to the UK and sometimes the title to the property may not be singular and clear - hopefully your vendor will have previously sorted it out - did you know to ask?
Also the buying process from overseas - it is very helpful to have a POA in place with a trusted local (eg para-legal/lawyer) to get issues sorted out promptly. Also the question of transfer of funds - a solicitor will have a client account where your cash can be held safety until completion - would you just transfer your funds direct to the vendor? I wouldn't even if it was my brother (no aspersions). They will also make sure you don't fall foul of the money laundering regs which could see your bank accounts frozen.
The Gibraltar option sounds like a good compromise - not sure if they have to belong to the Law Society will all its protections and compensation fund, but you could ask - maybe negotiate a better price. There are solicitors in the UK who specialise in Spanish law and property and will have to be Law Society registered.

Remember that all the posters on here who advise you take a risk are not betting their own money - you are

Moses2013

Totally agree. Of course it's easy to go to the town hall, or log on to the local planning website, but just one little mistake and that's it. You can be the best swimmer, but I would still not advise someone to swim in a lake all alone. It's always better to have a 2nd opinion from a professional and if you can afford to buy a house, that little more won't hurt.