jay01

It should say pitfalls, maybe I am to addled, lol

I have had to think about an appropriate title and I do not wish to scar monger but just mention our problems.

You never know when curved balls are thrown full belt at you and you have to completely change your plans and what you had organised as far as removals. I have made some threads and feel that you should always try anything but be prepared. Famous last words, We prepared for one situation, all things taken into account, process complete. Change of situation in Spain, throw all our planning up in the air and hoy it to the wind. Got to love the place

Where we were taking a container out with all our goods in,that had been sorted for one situation it all changed and we had to find a new place, we searched for somewhere that would take the container but either roads were not suitable for the sort of wagon or the house was not suitable in location or style for our needs so back to square one. Having found a place that fitted our needs it just could not accommodate the container as wires ran along the wall lines but at about 20ft off the ground, we had to accept defeat and change the way of taking our goods out.

Research started , many companies contacted, quotes taken, situation explained in detail and time scale discussed and finally a company was choosen. read all their bumpf, spoke to them reiterated our situation and was happy with them this is where it becomes buyer beware. I have no doubt that of the millions of people who have moved over the yrs a huge chunk of them had no problems but they are not us or you.

Day arrived, they arrived at said location and our first thoughts were their vans are not big enough, concerns dismissed as no problem. We started helping them load the vans so we could monitor what was going on I started to number boxes, theory what goes on should come off , concerns dismissed as not needed and boxes were loaded, trailer went lower, van went lower and questions were asked by us regarding weight- guess what "yep" concerns dismissed.

I know that when you get older you become a little less on the ball but you do not become down right stupid, you know where things were put when you helped put them there, you know when things go on, when you were the one to move them from the container to the trailer and you know what stuff you own and have packed away or so I thought how wrong was I.

Goods packed, general chit chat to the guys loading it as to what happens now, the van is loaded and is that it. The main man said one thing but according to his partner this conversation never happened and what we did and saw is a figment of our imagination so if you are loading a van always take photographic evidence just in case you have things go missing.

Arrived in Spain, goods arrived or at least most of them did and unloading started. To help the guys out we helped unload the van and strange things had happened, goods that had gone onto the trailer were now on the van, things that were on the back of the van we removed from the front, trays that were put in singularly became tied together but this seems to have been incorrect on our behalf. We are confused and mistaken, things that were put on did not come off, but according to them it did not go on or has been stolen by our neighbour for their barbecue.

The contents of the boxes that are missing according to them is and I quote. "I'm sure you would not like it if I inferred that maybe you just wanted to fabricate an insurance claim., or just confused as to what you had in storage all those months (without an inventory) or that your father's lost the plot".

We know what major items we packed into what boxes but how many of us know what we use a packaging to secure them, all those odds and ends that we just chuck in as the box is open. Well it seems that you should maybe take photographic evidence of each box prior to sealing it or do not seal it and make sure they look at all the contents before they load it, it seems that it is the only way you can prevent being called a lier.

The company according to them has NEVER had this happen before in the 10 yrs of them doing this job so it has nothing to do with them and basically tuff, somewhere, someone has taken our goods and no amount of small print get out can make me feel any better about the losses, it is not the fact that they have gone, it is the fact they they are saying it did not go on in the first place and that they did not do what we could clearly see was done.

So Buyer beware, forget the small print it does not matter anyway if you pack your own boxes as they have the get out clause of you packed it, you lump it, pay them an extra XYZ thousand pounds for them to do it and you may, just may be able to hold them accountable.

Sorry for the length of this thread or story but just thought those of you looking to move might at least stand a chance of getting all your goods in one piece .

cricketman

Sorry to hear on your bad experience.

I've moved a couple of times with furniture. I have always used a big, trusted company and always have had an inventory and insurance.

Yes it is more expensive, but gives you piece of mind. If you have to go for a cheaper option e.g. a man and van you have to factor in that something may go wrong. Depends on the value of stuff you are transporting

jay01

Even with insurance we/you are not covered as we packed the boxes our selves, they were not just a man with a van, but allegedly a reputable company. An inventory is only a guide and unless they pack the goods in the boxes and loaded totally by them, small print clauses give them a cop out unless the boat sinks or the van goes up in flames then they would struggle to get out of it.

Insurance is only ever looked into when it is required, but when it becomes your word against them as to what you put into boxes where would you stand. All I am trying to point out is that unless to shift your stuff yourself, pay way over the odds to send it by securicor, have them do all the work and pay accordingly you have little protection with small print.

We did everything that we could do to help out the guys by giving a helping hand and it was to our detriment that we did, lesson learned until it happens to someone else and yet another thread will be about goods lost or broken, at least with broken goods you can prove they are on the van then argue the toss as to state of repair when it went on, ours has gone missing, prove they went on in the first place.

fesuvious

Right, well I am guessing that the company used was not a member of either BAR ( www.BAR.co.uk ) or of The National Guild of Removers and Storers ( www.ngrs.co.uk ) ? If Im wrong, then good news, you have some options, and Il happily help with advice.

However, if this is not the case then your options are limited and I am afraid will end up in court, or most certainly with you having to issue proceedings.

Now, first bit of golden advice, in your correspondance request the names of the individuals involved i.e the staff. From the service you (didn't) receive the chances are the individuals were casual labour and as such the firm will go into a panic if they think these guys may have to provide statements and go on the record.

Check all your correspondance with the firm. Moreover get some info on their practices and find out what type of storage they used. Was it removal containers, or was it a self access facility, indeed do they own the place where your items were stored?

It is true to say that you have very little in your favour, however all is not lost.

Take it from me though, if the firm was not a member of either of the associations I have listed you will have to get very serious, very quickly if you want a decent result.

Il keep an eye on the thread, hopefully I may be able to advise as you go, but I really don't want to know who it was.

Good Luck

p.s word of advice for anyone moving abroad; In this digital age its dead easy to take photographs. We now photograph each 'row' when we load the vehicle. Primarily to make dealing with customs easier when stopped, but its easy to do it yourself. Just get snap happy round the house before they load. A couple of photographs of / in each room. Should take 10mins tops. It'll provide you with more peace of mind.

jay01

Many thanks for the advice and will follow the information it contains, I have no intention of posting whom it was because that would be both unfair and to be honest I am better than them.

I have no intention of giving them any weapons that could be used against us, but I would stress that it may not necessarily happen to them, we just seem to get all the problems, lol. Never a leprechaun when you need one..

I will have to contact them to establish if they are affiliated with either association's, but hind site is a wonderful tool.

I hate being made out to be a liar and a thief, I am many things but of little morals I am not.

fesuvious

You can use both the association sites to 'find a member'. Just enter either the postcode you moved from (if they were local) or the postcode of the mover themselves.

ETA

PM responded to, I think you'll like it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

michaleen oge

I moved from Doncaster to Hornsea and needed man with van,,being as tight as a ducks ass, I picked the lowest quote over the phone. Man never came to the house to check on the quantity of good being shifted, I had told him it was a five bed house being moved. "Our van will be more than big enough" was his answer.
On the day or moving,I had brough as much as possible onto the driveway to fascilitate a fast removal. Van came,it was a bloody horse box,complete with straw. And the removers..this is gospel,one was a giant with a childs intelligence,one was a midget with a hump,and the driver was the biggest gypsy I have ever seen.
Too late to get another removal firm,we loaded the van and to no-ones surprise,we had a garage-ful left over. Second trip needed. Not likeing the looks of the movers,I got my eldest twin to stay in the lorry for the trip.When the wife and myself reached Hornsea,we had lost the van. Hours later,I got a mobile phone call from my twin,and speaking in a very hushed voice,told me "we got lost,dad,twice,and it is dark in the back of this van,and I am in here with the giant,and he is LOOKING at me". I could have cried for the poor lad.
Anyhoo we eventually got unloaded,twice,my twin had to make a trip in the back of the van, twice, nothing was broken,nothing was stolen, and one of these days my twin boy will speak to his old dad again and forgive him. One of these days....

jay01

Took the advice given regarding contacting them for specific information and have received a less than suitable reply.

It is not until it goes wrong that you consider what you could have done differently. Does not really matter how much homework you try to do, be prepared for problems and possibly a battle.

Chiclanagir

I don´t suppose this company have a depot in Gib.......we paid to have all our packing done by the company. Ended up still being at the house at 6pm with our buyers waiting outside. Had to pay them 150 GBP for their time. We had paid to have it unpacked the Spanish end. It never happened just dumped. Three boxes were missing other items smashed. Didn´t get a penny in compensation even though I complained to the MD.

Fredbargate

Sounds like a chess game to me

paintermujer

If it is then I have heard very negative things about them from other people.

fesuvious

Well, for anyone who reads this now, and/or in the future

Check for membership of either, or both of the associations I listed earlier in the thread.

BAR members customers have access to a conciliation service through BAR. You can take a complaint directly to BAR and they have to act as mediation.

The good thing is that the firm HAS to respond.

If you use a member of the Guild then you have access to the Removers Ombudsman (or should be Ombudswoman ) who, again will mediate and her decision is binding. The removers HAVE to abide by it.

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Now, if you choose a company that does not operate as members of either then aside from being a skinflint your options are limited, and, ironically enough involve you spending money.

In short, prepare for court, or nothing at all. If a firm of removers sticks their head in the sand, or indeed fingers in their ears then there is not a lot you can do about it.

Diarise everything. Lay down clear, concise correspondance, and never resort to abuse, or bad language as that will come back to bite you when things get legal. Which, I am sorry to say, they will.

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There are NO other associations that have ANYTHING to do with the removals industry / trade / profession. No matter what anyone shows you, or blabs on about, if it aint BAR or Guild, then it doesn't matter.

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Mitzyboy

But to be fair, BAR and Guild doesn't always fully cut it either. You and I both know with associations that its often about providing a bit of information and paying a fee. Many removers subcontract their work to others, meaning that although they may be members of an association, the people they subcontract to may not be. Complications.

So if a removals company in the association says one thing, and the customer says another but can't prove it (which is normally the case) then we all know where thats going as the association doesn't want to lose a paying member.

I have seen so many people go to so called top notch companies and still have problems. Its a lottery I'm afraid, and I say that with the benefit of many years high end experience in the transport industry.

fesuvious

Hi Mitzy, what you say is true.

However, more often than not the consumer is never aware of what they actually have access to.

The Guild certainly have been known to throw members out. The BAR, well, not quite as much.

However, if a member of the public uses the services offered to them it gives them an even greater degree of leverage should they then decide to take things further. Moreover it will potentially lend credence to whichever side has supplied the more, and better 'evidence'.

Not too mention the Guilds Ombuds(wo)man is seperate. Not employed by Guild

Mitzyboy

Point taken. I ought to add that my experience was wholly gained near to you in Birmingham and Redditch, and I used to be a customer of yours!

What I am trying to say is that there are things you need to do and be aware of when you are organising removals through a third party, even down to sealing boxes with security tape. Insurance needs to be investigated, as its true to say that if you pack a box yourself then often the insurance doesnt cover you properly. Packing lists etc. It doesnt necessarily mean that a small removals company is a bad company (you were small once!). Recommendation is a good thing, and also ask lots of questions about how the load is handled. Transhipment to be avoided if at all possible!