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scampicat Aug 20th 2007 8:08 am

Building Permission?
 
We have a little derelict house we are doing up. It has two floors, no rooms as such.

We have removed a concrete stair balustrade to replace it with a wrought iron one, and a set of concrete stairs that led nowhere; also a concrete storage area.

We are now going to replace the floor as it is very uneven.

We are not at this time putting any fixtures or fittings into it, nor any electricity, it already has a water supply.

Basically, what we are doing is tidying it up - replastering walls and installing new windows (but in the same place and same size as the old ones).

Someone has frightened us to death and says we should have had building permission and architect's plans to do this and we will not be able to sell the place if we don't.

Surely you don't need permissions and plans to plaster walls or replace a concrete balustrade with a wrought iron one, or stick some glass in a window aperture? Or to renew a floor?

On the escritura it just says it is a two storey building of such-and-such a floor area and it is still that,there are no extra or less 'rooms than there were before.

Can anyone help?????

spain Aug 20th 2007 8:58 am

Re: Building Permission?
 

Originally Posted by scampicat (Post 5210674)
We have a little derelict house we are doing up. It has two floors, no rooms as such.

We have removed a concrete stair balustrade to replace it with a wrought iron one, and a set of concrete stairs that led nowhere; also a concrete storage area.

We are now going to replace the floor as it is very uneven.

We are not at this time putting any fixtures or fittings into it, nor any electricity, it already has a water supply.

Basically, what we are doing is tidying it up - replastering walls and installing new windows (but in the same place and same size as the old ones).

Someone has frightened us to death and says we should have had building permission and architect's plans to do this and we will not be able to sell the place if we don't.

Surely you don't need permissions and plans to plaster walls or replace a concrete balustrade with a wrought iron one, or stick some glass in a window aperture? Or to renew a floor?

On the escritura it just says it is a two storey building of such-and-such a floor area and it is still that,there are no extra or less 'rooms than there were before.

Can anyone help?????

it does seem silly yes BUT I wold recommened you apply for permission/license to be on the safe side

we needed permission to re-tile our bathroom :eek:

the tax is small, usually 3%-6% of the total cost of the work

its a simple procedure (well I say simple - filling in a form - sometimes a chore in Spain :)) and the town hall will tell you if you do need an architects project for thr windows (which isnt un-heard of)

scampicat Aug 20th 2007 1:41 pm

Re: Building Permission?
 
Thanks for your advice.

Well in that case it can stay as it is, no way are we forking out money to line some architect's pocket when what we are doing is just basic maintenance/repairs.

My husband has totally replastered our house that we live in, to me that is like decoration, so we asked no permission. Maybe we should have asked permission before we moved our new sofa in or bought a new cooker.

Jobs for the boys, as always in Spain.

The house can stay derelict then, no skin off our noses, we thought tidying it up would be better for the village.

But thanks for telling me!

jdr Aug 20th 2007 3:20 pm

Re: Building Permission?
 

Originally Posted by scampicat (Post 5211746)
Thanks for your advice.

Well in that case it can stay as it is, no way are we forking out money to line some architect's pocket when what we are doing is just basic maintenance/repairs.

My husband has totally replastered our house that we live in, to me that is like decoration, so we asked no permission. Maybe we should have asked permission before we moved our new sofa in or bought a new cooker.

Jobs for the boys, as always in Spain.

The house can stay derelict then, no skin off our noses, we thought tidying it up would be better for the village.

But thanks for telling me!

You need licences for all works, patios, pergodas, bathrooms, kitchens, tiling, brick walls, even painting the exterior.
You can dodge it, but if someone denounces you, expect a fine and possible order to change back to as was, or if you want to sell you will need the licences to back up the changes to the deeds.

scampicat Aug 20th 2007 3:53 pm

Re: Building Permission?
 

Originally Posted by jdr (Post 5212140)
You need licences for all works, patios, pergodas, bathrooms, kitchens, tiling, brick walls, even painting the exterior.
You can dodge it, but if someone denounces you, expect a fine and possible order to change back to as was, or if you want to sell you will need the licences to back up the changes to the deeds.


But there are no changes to the deeds! It's still as it was and is not going to be any different. Just with new plaster on the walls and new windows to replace the rotting ones! It doesn't actually say on the deeds whether we have a wrought iron balustrade or not. It just says two floors of so many sq.metres and that is not changing. We are not putting any dividing walls in. The outside we were going to have re-rendered and painted white (same as it and every other house in the village).

We have no land so it is purely and simnply internal work apart from the rendering/painting.

So they may want us to put the rottoen windows back and take the plaster off the wall,? And un-paint it? I don't think so.

Can't be arsed, it can stay as it is, not going through all that palaver and certainly am not going to pay any tax just because we've stuck a bit of plaster on the wall..

jdr Aug 20th 2007 4:02 pm

Re: Building Permission?
 
It doesn`t make any difference to me and it may not change the deeds, but its obvious that work has been carried out with no licence and potential buyers can insist you sort it before they buy otherwise they could be liable for it.

scampicat Aug 20th 2007 4:13 pm

Re: Building Permission?
 

Originally Posted by jdr (Post 5212303)
It doesn`t make any difference to me and it may not change the deeds, but its obvious that work has been carried out with no licence and potential buyers can insist you sort it before they buy otherwise they could be liable for it.

Yes, I understand what you are saying, but we don't intend selling it so it can just stay derelict.

Sorry for ranting. Thanks all for your advice, at least I know now about the latest little nonsensical bureaucratic offering!

pwwm Aug 20th 2007 5:22 pm

Re: Building Permission?
 
There are large daily fines if you are caught to be working without permission, jdr is quite right in what he has said re needing permiso, it is cheap enough and you can then wave the bit of paper at any police that come calling.
Friends of mine here have been working on thier place and the police called as a neighbour had denounced them, thankfully she had listened to me and had the permiso paper.

You have been warned

scampicat Aug 20th 2007 5:41 pm

Re: Building Permission?
 

Originally Posted by pwwm (Post 5212558)
There are large daily fines if you are caught to be working without permission, jdr is quite right in what he has said re needing permiso, it is cheap enough and you can then wave the bit of paper at any police that come calling.
Friends of mine here have been working on thier place and the police called as a neighbour had denounced them, thankfully she had listened to me and had the permiso paper.

You have been warned

Take your point although I still find it difficult to believe that you can't stick a bit of plaster on the wall without getting caught up in bureaucracy.

Are you SURE you need permission to do internal repairs? We are not building anything, literally just tidying the place up.

I can't imagine our neighbours would mind us IMPROVING the place so that it doesn't look as though it is about to fall down.


We don't see the Guardia here. Occasionally they will turn up at the bar for a sol y sombra.

Fred James Aug 20th 2007 7:50 pm

Re: Building Permission?
 
It's not a question of bureaucracy.

What you have to remember is that over 50% of all income to most of the town halls comes from building licences - that's why they are hot on it and why there is so much corruption.

If central government or regional government funded the town halls properly they would not need to charge so much for licences. It's not so long ago that the mayor got no salary but got a % of all building licences.

Hillybilly Aug 20th 2007 8:24 pm

Re: Building Permission?
 
You need a Minor Works Licence for "non-structural works of partial reform, of repair, of renovation, of modification or replacement of floors, ceilings, walls , staircases, tiles, plumbing, electrics, heating and sanitation installations, paint, stucco and other coatings and interior carpentry".
You only require an Architect's Proyecto for a Major Works Licence ie for anything remotely structural which replacing the floor would be.
You can apply retrospectively to have the works "regularised".

wiccan Aug 20th 2007 8:41 pm

Re: Building Permission?
 

Originally Posted by Hillybilly (Post 5213398)
You need a Minor Works Licence for "non-structural works of partial reform, of repair, of renovation, of modification or replacement of floors, ceilings, walls , staircases, tiles, plumbing, electrics, heating and sanitation installations, paint, stucco and other coatings and interior carpentry".
You only require an Architect's Proyecto for a Major Works Licence ie for anything remotely structural which replacing the floor would be.
You can apply retrospectively to have the works "regularised".

Hi what would you rather have a little bill for permits now and then or council tax like the uk ? I know which I prefer and Its not the uk system
Wiccan

spain Aug 20th 2007 9:16 pm

Re: Building Permission?
 

Originally Posted by scampicat (Post 5212603)
Take your point although I still find it difficult to believe that you can't stick a bit of plaster on the wall without getting caught up in bureaucracy.

Are you SURE you need permission to do internal repairs? We are not building anything, literally just tidying the place up.

I can't imagine our neighbours would mind us IMPROVING the place so that it doesn't look as though it is about to fall down.


We don't see the Guardia here. Occasionally they will turn up at the bar for a sol y sombra.

I know from personal experience - its not worth the risk just get the license :thumbsup:

scampicat Aug 20th 2007 9:53 pm

Re: Building Permission?
 

Originally Posted by wiccan (Post 5213481)
Hi what would you rather have a little bill for permits now and then or council tax like the uk ? I know which I prefer and Its not the uk system
Wiccan

At least I can budget for my Council Tax and it makes sense, and most households pay it.

scampicat Aug 20th 2007 9:59 pm

Re: Building Permission?
 

Originally Posted by Hillybilly (Post 5213398)
You need a Minor Works Licence for "non-structural works of partial reform, of repair, of renovation, of modification or replacement of floors, ceilings, walls , staircases, tiles, plumbing, electrics, heating and sanitation installations, paint, stucco and other coatings and interior carpentry".
You only require an Architect's Proyecto for a Major Works Licence ie for anything remotely structural which replacing the floor would be.
You can apply retrospectively to have the works "regularised".

Thank you for this informative post.

The work will not get done then. I am not paying an architect. Some friends of ours had to pay 600 euros up front and the architect did nothing, and then they were not allowed to sack the architect!

Reading your post again, we have to have permission to paint our house inside? Unbelievable. As I say, I'd better let the town hall know I have bought a new sofa.

Anyway, I have learned a lot today. It's no wonder half the houses in our village are falling down if these are the hoops one has to jump through to do simple repair work.

Oh well, you live and learn.


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