BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Hello can someone clarify the new rules for Brits wanting to move to Spain pls? ALso, why are so many Brits leaving Spain? We can't trust the news anymore. Thank you.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Brits have always left Spain for various reasons. Since Brexit the new rules just make it more difficult, especially when it comes to finances and healthcare many won't get a visa.
Financial means required to cover the living expenses and, where appropriate, those of their family members,
for one year, in accordance with the following amounts:
- For the support of the main applicant, monthly, 400 % of the IPREM (Indicador Público de Renta
de Efectos Múltiples), which in 2021 amounts to 564,90 €, being 2.259,6 € or its legal equivalent in
foreign currency.
- For the support of each of the family members in charge, monthly, 100% of the IPREM, which in
2021 amounts to 564,90 € or its legal equivalent in foreign currency.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Reports of Brits leaving Spain I find tend to be overblown and sensationalised.

The few I personally know have left have done so because of years living under the radar making it too risky to now expose themselves and to them I say good riddance.

The situation with driving licences has seen some up sticks and quit the country before one random roadside stop brought their dodgy houses of cards tumbling down.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

It depends on what kind of visa the UK citizen wanting to move to Spain needs. A full list of all the different types of visa available can be found on the website of the Spanish Consulate in London. The figures Moses2013 has quoted are for a Non Lucrative visa, the one which is needed for people who want to live in Spain but will not be working here (ie retired or early retired). However, they were increased (as happens annually) on 1st January 2022 and the IPREM figure is now €579.02 per month, making the annual income needed for a single applicant €27,792.06 and €6,948.24 per year for each additional family member.

https://www.iprem.com.es/2022.html

Comprehensive health insurance with no co-payments or exclusions is also needed - in the case of UK state pensioners I have read that an S1 form from the DWP which means that the UK Government will pay their healthcare costs is now being accepted, but as up until now the DWP would only issue an S1 to an individual's address in Spain I am not sure how this works as the visa has to be applied for in the UK before the applicant moves to Spain.

For people who want to work in Spain, they must first find an employer who wants to give them a job. It is the employer who must apply for a work permit for them, and in the process they have to prove that there is no suitably qualified EU citizen available to do the job. Only when that work permit has been issued, which can take quite some time, can the individual then apply for a visa.

In either case, once they have obtained their visa and moved to Spain, the individual and their family members must then go through a separate process to register as residents and be issued with a TIE (residence permit for foreigners).

I think these tales of large number of Brits leaving Spain has, as usual, been exaggerated and misinterpreted by the media. Certainly in my area I am not aware of any more than the usual percentage of people leaving for the usual reasons amongst permanent residents. Some people who had been living here previously but had never registered as residents (as they should have done), normally because they wanted to evade Spanish taxes, may have decided to leave rather than be compelled to register. However, a proportion of British holiday home owners have, I believe, decided to sell up as they don't want to be restricted to only being able to spend 90 days out of every 180 in the Schengen zone.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

From my experience there are far fewer UK nationals in Spain. We first bought land back in 1998 and from then on, there were huge numbers of Brits buying property/moving to Spain but from about 2008 onwards, it slowly started to dry up an now I hardly ever come across the British. I have noticed a huge increase in other nationalities like Dutch, Belgian, French and German nationals who have bought properties from the departing British.

​​​​​​Th e dreaded Brexit means that this is the direction of travel. Gone are the days of UK nationals being able to move to EU states with ease. I read posts on here from people applying for visas in various EU states and it looks like a nightmare on wheels, ouch!

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

This has all been one, huge, terrible mess. A large chunk of the nation coaxed into believing that shooting oneself in the foot is actually a beneficial thing.

Apart from the number of people leaving Spain, the main statistic I'd like to see is the influx of new people coming over from the UK. Surely this number has been hit the hardest given that a UK passport is treated the same as an Albanian or Algerian one in current times?

I wouldn't say that we are doomed forever though. Keep mind that it was the old generation who mostly voted for this, whilst the youngest voters opted to stay. Soon 6 years will have passed so there will be a noticeable shift in demographics when it comes to EU membership sentiment. Plus the damgage done to the economy should convince quite a few people anyway that this has been just a smokescreen to cover up a power grab.

Give it a few years and EEA membership alongside the likes of Norway will be on the cards, and if that happens then more and more of us will be basking in the sun again. :)

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Bravo, top post, I agree with all of that!

The numbers of incoming UK nationals will be miniscule because so many people will not meet the strict, third country criteria. It's not just difficult to retire in EU states, work permits are a complete nightmare.

When my (British) partner and I came through immigration at Malaga recently, I thought it was telling when the Spanish border official held up my Irish passport and said "this passport is better" while my partner was ferreting around assembling paperwork! He wasn't wrong.

I agree that demographics will play a huge part in the UK rejoining the EEA and my age group (Generation X) will increasingly resent not having the same opportunities as older people who voted Leave.

It's a horrendous mess.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Speaking about basking in the sun, I think a lot of younger people will be looking at a different type of Spain in the future. For a lot of the older generation it was about most possible hours of sunshine, cheap booze and apartment blocks near the beach. Now you see a lot more people who value what the North of Spain has on offer and it's not just sun, sea and sangria. Even inland areas that are greener and cooler seem popular now. It will take a while but there are signs that it's changing.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

There is nothing new about the attractions of North Eastern Spain. In the 60s it was the only place to go.

I love the area well and love it, but the south is where the weather is best and that is important if you are living here full time. Less than 10c down here on the Costa del Sol now and that is cold!

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Hola,
I speak as one whose house is up for sale; I will be moving back to the UK permanently after 19 years here in Spain. I believe the numbers of people moving here will be decimated, and we have only seen the tip of the iceberg. People do not believe the annual income required nor do they believe they will have to take a driving test in Spanish (it will all be agreed),

I believe the days of retirees coming to Spain are over and that eventually, another set of countries will take over as the main ain for retirees. I could suggest that Portugal may be of choice but I still think people are deluding themselves if they think that at 65 they will be able to pass a driving test having driven for forty plus years picking up all the bad habits possible.

Therefore, for people living here legally, the Brits around you will diminish naturally over time although I do believe that holiday homes will rise

Davexf

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Not talking about us the old. As you say better weather and for a younger people that has a different meaning. Just like people used to burn in the sun and not use sunscreen, you get less of that today. Add in global warming and different generations just value different things. Younger people now also drink less alcohol than their parents did.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

I agree with Lou71 that many Brits left Spain from 2008 onwards (when the global financial crash happened). Those of working age found that either jobs weren't available or if self-employed their businesses were severely impacted, and the large fall in the exchange rate made it difficult for a lot of retirees living on modest pensions from the UK. There are definitely fewer Brits living in my area now than there were pre-2008. I also agree that there will be fewer Brits moving to Spain in the future as many who would have liked to make the move will not be able to meet the post-Brexit requirements. However, I do now see people posting on social media who are going through the process of applying for NLVs, and some who have already obtained them, so some are still coming.

It does not bother me at all that there will be fewer of them around in the future, though, and I don't agree with the people who say that Spain will suffer terrible economic damage because of it. We are not seeing (unlike the situation post 2008) large gluts of unsold properties, there is strong demand from Northern European buyers and they will gradually replace the Brits who leave.

As for the older generation preferring to live in the South of Spain, I am 65 and have been here just over 15 years. The weather was definitely one of the reasons I chose to be in the South, when leaving the rainy, grey and cold North West of England where it was dark by 4pm in winter, the last thing I wanted was more of the same. But since we moved here permanently I have never sunbathed (I used to when we only used our Spanish house for holidays but never felt the need to when I was living here full time) and never sat on a beach although I have walked along a few on occasions. There are no British owned bars or restaurants in my town, and we have never taken part in activities aimed specifically at expats so would not miss them if they disappeared. The foreign born population in my municipality is around 10% and the number of UK citizens registered as residents around 1% of the total population, so would hardly make a dent if all of them left. The population of the municipality has been growing steadily over the last few years.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

The new rules for moving from the UK to Spain to live are readily available online I wouldn't take UK news or media as a good source. Its more difficult but not impossible following Brexit. As for why people are going back to UK. Yes it happens and always has as mentioned previously in the thread. Certainly financial crash 2008 caused many to return for personal financial reasons. Brexit and 3rd country rules for UK citizens has made it difficult for those that didn't comply with the legal requirements of residency etc. It was really quite easy to avoid residency requirements etc before Brexit not very easy now. As for UK eventually returning to EU via the EEA route? I'm not saying it won't happen but I would guess it will not be easy or guaranteed? The UK seems to me to have acted in a very antagonistic way in its negotiations over leaving and NI, some of that is clearly usual negotiation procedure some trying to get political advantage in UK with voters and much pot stirring by media. UK will only get back in if all EU countries want us back in the EEA. I certainly don't think that will happen in the near future.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Many EU countries will miss the UK's financial contributions.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

I'm sure they do but uk won't be getting back in on anywhere near same terms as we left. Main thing is it won't happen quickly if at all.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

No that won't happen. We won't get back any of the opt-outs negotiated since the days of Margaret Thatcher, and as new entrant we are obliged to accept the euro and jurisdiction of European Central Bank among other things.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

No they won't.

The UK is still paying in for the duration of the current budget cycle. These are what the exit bill was calculated at.

But, to refute your point, the UK paidthe EU, and the EU decided how much each country got. But those were EU funds, not the UK's at that point.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Agreed, the UK threw all those concessions away and has absolutely nothing to show for it. It's called shooting yourself in both feet.

The EU would not allow the UK to rejoin without a very decisive referendum but they would allow them to rejoin the single market and the custom union.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Exactly.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Covid has messed things up the last two years. Brits will be back this summer. Also I don’t believe we will always be out of the customs Union. I think a deal like Norway would solve a lot of the uks problems

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

3 of the 4 constituent countries of the UK are already out of the EU customs union.

The 4th, Northern Ireland, is currently in because of the Northern Ireland Protocol, but the UK government is trying to negotiate itself out of this which the UK government originally insisted was needed. No NIP means the UK customs border will be along the 310-mile border between NI and Eire. That's going to cause the same problems for NI as leaving the EU has for the rest of the UK.

As for a Norway-type deal, can you see anyone accepting EU membership rules without having a say in those laws? We left when we had a say. Norway is a step down.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Don't get me wrong and just like it can be very different in the South, it can be very different in the North. Just saying that I see the younger generation being less interested in the low cost Spain that a lot of Brits are attracted to today. Not everyone is like that but unfortunately it was often about burning in the sun, cheap booze, cheap food in British owned bars. It's not as if the North is cold either and look at the weather around Vigo now. It's more about sustainability and with visa requirements, I just don't see that type of Spain lasting forever.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Its harder to retire to Spain now and its harder to emigrate to Spain now and work but no harder than moving to Canada/Australia/New Zealand. Moving to those countries to retire you have to show you won't be a drain on their economy and to work in those countries you need to hold skills that are in demand there.

Things were easy until the British people voted to leave the EU so its no use moaning, people need to wake up and smell the coffee and move on; things change.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

I'm pretty certain that retirees can only get a four year visa to live in Australia, then it has to be renewed. A permanent visa, without family connections, is not possible.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

So renew it if you meet the criteria. Easier with family connections but if you have a good pot of money you can retire on an investors visa. Our daughter was going to NZ and we had enough to follow her out if she'd taken the job offer, same for Canada, same for Spain, you need money and proof you won't cost your host nation money which is fare I think if you want to retire there.

Other than that if your younger then go and train and get experience in work areas that are needed, its not rocket science; you can move anywhere if you have needed skills. The days of a £25 Ryanair ticket to Alicante and a cash in hand job are over.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Other countries are far too expensive and complicated. The beauty of Spain is that you could just rock up and wing it. Didn’t need complicated visas and bags of money. You don’t even need to speak Spanish in certain places. Brits will want to invest somewhere still im sure as houses in the UK are stupid money at the moment. Let’s see if Spain remains Britain’s favourite holiday destination post covid/Brexit.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

The beauty of Brexit is that you can't do that anymore, and many of those previously doing so voted for it, shooting themselves in the foot because they thought the rules would be able to continue to be ignored.

Karma wins.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

I'm sure it won't affect Spain being the number 1 holiday destination. The only difference is Spain, and the rest of the EU, will now attract a better kind of UK retiree for their economy. The same goes for the migrant workforce, those from the UK will now be qualified with desirable skills. Brexit is full of benefits for the entire EU.

Depending on how you view it, it's also good for British expats as we might finally lose the reputation of being a nation of over tanned broke drunks living under the radar. We can pass that title to another north European nation of over tanned broke drunks who aren't very good at securing World Cup titles.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Yes but it will be competition with pretty much every other country on the planet for this better retiree. I’m sure there are better countries with better tax laws for a middle class retiree than Spain.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

But most of the options are at least as difficult to get into now as Spain and don’t have the weather and the cheap flights to return to see family.

So which alternative would you choose and why?

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

The point I was making was it has to be renewed, its not permanent. But thanks for the rant!

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Portugal for one has cheaper visas. My friend moved there because also has good tax laws. Still close to the UK and has good weather. Also see a lot of people in and out of Dubai. Can’t see that being really complicated to live.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

If tax laws are your main consideration, Bulgaria's that way ----->

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Hardly a rant LOL I love keyboard warriors.

So, carrying on the rant (I prefer diatribe) so big deal, you have to renew, if you have the means to stay you get stamped, if not you needed a couple of million to retire in Auz so its not the end of the world really, buy a cheapo golden visa in Spain fly down under to see family ;)
The end :)

Someone else said he could see more people buying second homes out there and that makes; lot of brits getting a bit older and living in an overpriced house now selling up, downsizing and sometimes buying a second home. Here in South Wales we are seeing more and more rural properties shooting up in price because of people wanting out of the cities with even people from Cardiff and Swansea selling up and moving down the valleys for a better home at literally half the price. Our rural home would have fetched @£750k two years ago and would now sell at a million or more. So I can see people using spare dosh on a weekend/holiday home in Spain, six months is more that enough a year for most people.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Portuguese might be difficult but Bulgarian looks impossible. Lets hope they speak English.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

You make some good points there. I never understood the issue of 90/180 for the majority of people who like to split their time between Spain and the UK. Those people generally want to be in the UK for Christmas with their families and often find the summer months too hot anyway. That leaves them with spring and autumn, perfect for the 90/180 rule. Personally I'll probably use Spain as my retirement base and hop around Europe or further afield for extended periods under 90 days per visit. I can just about handle a weekend in the UK before I'm itching to get out.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

Apart from the Algarve and the southern part of the Alentejo, Portugal's weather is more akin to that of Northern Spain, a good deal wetter and colder than the South of Spain (and much smaller in terms of land area so not likely to be able to accommodate large numbers of British retirees without becoming completely overdeveloped). I had occasion to have to spend time on the Costa de Prata about 1.5 hours North of Lisbon in June 2019 after my sister was killed whilst on holiday there. Every day bar two of my stay, it rained and was far colder than the area in Andalucia I had left. The atmosphere was so damp that clothes hanging in the wardrobe were damp, towels in the bathroom would not dry and came to feel musty, anything paper left out on surfaces was damp and limp, and when I was trying to do washing for my sister's family it was impossible to get anything dry. And that was in June, I certainly wouldn't want to live with that climate in the winter. Many years earlier I'd spent two weeks in the same area on holiday, also in June, and it was just the same then, it rained (heavily) every day for the first week of our stay.

Public services especially the health service are also inferior to those in Spain. Portugal is a poorer country, and it shows. It may have lower taxes but you get what you pay for.

Those British retirees who could no longer meet the requirements for a NLV to live in Spain certainly could not obtain a retirement visa to live in Dubai as an alternative. They would also have to pay for private health insurance for the rest of their lives (expensive for the over 65s and can be impossible for people with pre-existing conditions).

https://www.khaleejtimes.com/governm...abinet-meeting

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

It's called weather. My parents were in Tenerife for 2 weeks and it rained all the time but it was hitting 30 and dry in Ireland at that time;). If you look at 2019, then you know why. Brits also move to France.

• The number of precipitation days was up to 30 more than average in the north, west and south, whereas central and eastern Europe saw below-average values.
• In winter, spring and summer, precipitation was below average in the southwest, however, through autumn to December, large parts of this region changed to seeing much-above-average precipitation.
• Soil moisture shows a downward trend, with values for 2019 being the second lowest since at least 1979.
• Most of continental Europe saw below-average soil moisture throughout the year, especially in central Europe during summer and in the southeast during autumn.
• Average precipitation in 2019 shows a relatively inhomogeneous picture over Europe.
  
  Generally, northern Europe, and some parts of western and southern Europe, experienced a wetter-than-average year. Precipitation was especially above average in parts of northern Spain and the Alps.
  
  In contrast, conditions were below average across large parts of the Iberian Peninsula, especially in the south, and in an arc from central France through most of central Europe and into eastern Europe, including many of the non-coastal regions of the Balkans. Precipitation was also below average in western Iceland.
  The contrast between wet and dry conditions over Europe is also reflected in the number of wet days; defined as the number of days with precipitation amounts above 1 mm. A large region with a below-average number of wet days extended from northeastern France, through Germany, Poland and the southern Baltic states towards southwestern Russia. North and south of this region, particularly in the Alps, parts of Italy and the Adriatic coast of the Balkan Peninsula, as well as over large parts of Ireland, the United Kingdom, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and northwestern Russia, a higher than normal number of wet days was observed, with many regions seeing over 30 days more than average.
  

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

The Brits I've usually met when abroad can just about manage whatever form of English their home dialect is.

I've seen someone visiting from Newcastle fail to make theirself understood by another Brit who'd lived in Canada over ten years.

Re: BRITS LEAVING SPAIN
 

No idea about NZ or Spain, but the investor visa program for Canada was done away with in 2014. And that would presumably be the concern for most in Oz if they are only on a temp 4 year visa that needs to be renewed. What happens if the program is scrapped altogether?