cricketman

I've talked about this article before, but it was buried at the end of a long thread.

All I can say is this is essential reading for any parent who is thinking of moving to Spain. Don't fall into the trap of the many British parents and children this paper talk about.

http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6020962

Some quotes that stood out for me from the article:

"[British children] are, according to a new study, worse at learning the host language and integrating into school life than any other nationality in Spain’s state schools."

"They come here with this mentality … wanting to keep themselves to themselves and feel no obligation to integrate into our way of life"

“There’s no point in me going up to the school as my Spanish is not good enough. We had to use a translator to get her enrolled. We live on an urbanisation of about 1,000 houses, which is nearly all British, so there’s not much need for Spanish"

"Maria Asuncion Prieto hit out at “the expat ghettos where Spaniards fear to tread”, telling the UK ambassador and other British groups that numerous attempts to integrate European residents had failed because they had no interest in being part of Spanish society, and were only there because it is warmer and cheaper"

lynnxa

yes, I've read it before


& yes, I know kids like that who have been in the Spanish system for years - sometimes from age 5-16 - so their entire school career pretty much - & never quite pick up the language well enough to succeed

without exception, their parents never really try to learn Spanish either

jackytoo

Yes I think it is true. That is the sort of people who have been moving to Spain during the last few years. (present company excepted, I know some of you care by your posts). Many of British kids drop out by about 14.

reggiedh

I think it is all down to the mentality the kids get at home. Period.

jdr

Too right.

fionamw

Yip. Just (at last) got SOME Spanish channels at huge expense and no huge success so 8yo can have Spanish daily at home. (not perfect, but it's an attempt)

Yip.

I speak as one who's unashamedly gone down the route of British/International to ensure his written/spoken English is up to par and being the only Brit in his year stands a good chance of keeping his Spanish up to par! At his village Spanish school he was helping the teacher during English lessons, and with - admittedly not universal - local aspirations erring on the side of construction (!) agriculture and little else, it seemed a better bet to join the Spanish who choose their child's educational path than keep with those who opt for or generally have little choice. Having been his previous teacher's best integrater in 6 years, which she put down to his good Spanish, it didn't surprise but slightly saddened me that his new year teacher is a stickler for 'no Spanish to be spoken in class' .... except that he and his mates get around it anyway!
As to integrating, well campo isn't necessarily the best way. Certainly Brit:urbs don't strike me the best way either. But each to his own. As long as the impression given by the folk who choose to go ghetto doesn't have a negative impact on those trying a tad harder............

manamama

Obviously the parents care nothing about their children´s education....

Lazy Brits in the sun create lazy kids in the sun.............shame for the kids because they will end up with nothing but a police report or unemployment.

I saw plently when I was down South....but equally saw parents who worked hard and pushed for their kids to do well. It is hard but certain circumstances
ie too many Brits work against them..

For us up here in the North where we are the only British family around...I am proud that my kids are doing really well and I hope that the spanish think well of us and we give Brits a good name..

HBG

There is a silly assumption by the OP that British kids in Spain can be measured against other nationalities with equal numbers attending Spanish schools. There aren't any.

There is no point of caparison, none. The Germans, perhaps the next most immigrants but in much smaller numbers, don't seem to bring their children to Spain, they prefer their own education system.

The Brits are probably too trusting in bringing their children over, they will suffer from an education system in Spain that is inferior to their own, very much so. That may well explain why some of them rebel, realising the obvious shortcomings of their new country's educational system.

The statistics of Spanish children going on to further education are abysmal.

battlezone123

Children have to integrate in the North of Spain. There are very few British people around where we live therefore they have no choice. My only problem is with my youngest. Having lived here for 4 years (since 5 years old) he is having trouble understanding different accents on the English TV.

battlezone123

Why is this? My eldest moves on to ESO next week and he has been having discussions with his old classmates about the Spanish equivalent of the Baccalaureate. I know the kids views may change, but out of a class of 10 only my son and one other child are going to go on and do the Baccalaureate.
When asking what were the reasons for not going onto further education their reply was "what's the point".

But surely there is a point that further education is extremely important.

cricketman

Both points you make here are not true

There are more immigrants from Romania, Ecuador and Morrocco than there are British. The Ecuadorians have the advantage of the language, but the others dont.

And around one third of Spanish children go on to university - and it continues to go up year on year, that fairs well against any other country.

Here's a report from 3 years ago and the stats have improved still more since then:

http://www.universia.es/html_estatic...ia/baccaj.html

cricketman

Just sounds like you live out in the campo. Generally the countryside in Spain is poor and the cities are rich, the opposite of the UK.

I went to uni 10 years ago in the UK and I was the only person out of my group of friends and extended family to go (or have ever been) to university. Just depends where you live.

My OH grew up in Oviedo and ALL her friends and family went to university

HBG

I only have some knowledge of the Spanish education system in Valencia and Andalucia, but to suggest that one in three Spanish children go on to university is ludicrous.

It's equally ludicrous to suggest that Romanian, Ecuadorian or Moroccan immigrants outnumber the British expats in Spain.

Since 1997, in the UK, the quantity of people obtaining degrees has increased tenfold, and the quality has decreased accordingly. In some establishments, like the 'university' of East London, it's impossible not to get a degree, the only entry qualification is the ability to write your name in English, or Urdu.

Employers have begun to realise what has happened and a degree is now a hindrance in finding employment.

Rotor

Mine started in guardaria from around 2 yrs then straight to Spanish school, they speak better spanish than some of the natives of the same age most of their school friends are Spanish , Nothing difficult about it when they come here very young but some never fit in when they turn up at 8 or 9 onwards.

bil

Anyone care to bet on how many of those parents are the type who bitch about immigrants coming to the UK and never learning the language?