HBG

A sensible comment, Jo, but the cold reality of living in a cold country and an unhappy relationship persuades people to try something different.

I'm sure most of them realise the futility of the venture but go ahead in the search for happiness. What's that old cliché?

Better to have loved and failed, than not to have loved at all. Forgive me if I've got that wrong.

Dick Dasterdly

I think it should be,..

Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

or

Better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all.

Sometimes true, sometimes not, I imagine.

HBG

Come to think of it, I know of an example only a ten-minute walk from where I live. A large Spanish owned bar used to be successful before the recession, run by the Spanish owners who own several bars.

They rented it out to several British tenants who all failed, miserably. So they closed the bar to save on autonomo and other taxes.

But one of the Spanish brothers with responsibility for the bar found a young English girlfriend and he now opens the bar a couple of days a week, only for two or three hours at a time, because his girlfriend likes to run the bar.

The reason he only opens for two or three hours is because his English girlfriend gets pissed and he has to take her home.

She's half his age and wears a mini skirt halfway up her arse.

I'm annoyed because of the irregular hours; I have to walk past several days a week to try and catch her.

(Thanks for the correction Dick, it's part of a song, isn't it?)

jojojojojo

Regardless. the reality is that you have X amount of money to spend on your dream and/or your future. You spend it on a dream that fails. so you have nothing for your future. Hows that gonna be then??? Return to the UK, borrowing the money for the flight and possibly leaving huge depts behind, blaming each other for the failings, stay at relatives houses til you can get a sparsely furnished housing association flat, claim dole money, search for work........ Thats conducive to a happy relaxed life - NOT!!! Did anyone think it would work or was it just a dream, cos in dreams things dont have to work, they just have to be!!

Anyone who thinks that it will be easy and relaxing to start a bar in Spain and who havent worked in the industry, dont speak or understand Spanish or their financial sytems shouldnt even consider it! Give the money to charity instead!

Jo xxx

Dick Dasterdly

Whilst the ways of the Spanish beaurocratic system are complex and numerous I would say that for those with sufficient motivation, they can be mastered to a reasonable and useable level within about a year or so with expert guidance.
What cannot be picked up so quickly is the experience and know how of how to make a bar tick and as previously mentioned, personallity and character also need to come high on the list.
It is not without good reason that most expats unfortunately seem to be staring into half empty glasses when the Spanish bar business comes under scrutiny.

HBG

There can't be figures available, but I suspect most British buyers of Spanish bars do so without a business plan or previous accounts to consider. If it's a closed bar, closed for a while, you're stepping into the dark.

It's a dream for dreamers. So we tick them off and castigate them for being stupid. And still they come? And always will come.

They won't listen to us, no matter how experienced we may be. It's like telling people to stop playing the lottery, the chances of winning are much like buying a successful bar.

In a 'pants down' moment, I confess to buying one in Estepona, a thousand years ago. I spunked away the usual 50K in the company of a beautiful lady from deepest Devon.

It was a mistake, I only wish I could make it again.

Dick Dasterdly

A very brave admission in view of all thats gone before.

Unless the beautiful lady came as part of the fixtures and fittings, I think I would have been inclined to carefully guide her in the opposite direction and put her undoubted talent and energy to more satisfactory (or should that be satisfying), purposes.

Lenox

One of the problems that British bar-owners face is that - fair or not - they will not be attracting the Spanish consumer. In the smaller resorts in particular, no local Spaniard will use Brit bars (why should they?), which leaves the potential number of customers at the much lower rate of foreign inhabitants plus the occasional tourist trade (tourists, whether they like the bar or not, will be back in Wolverhampton next Thursday anyway, so won't be loyal customers). Hence the small circle of regulars, quiz nights and book swaps.

avocados

Why are Brits so critical of their fellow countrymen?!!

If no expat opened a bar/cafe there would be no expat bars or cafes.

Since the experts claim that there are "millions" of these establishments all over Spain, there must be a lot of successful ones about.

I think people are just concentrating on the failures, a bit of schadenfraude perhaps.

steviedeluxe

I think you may hit upon the reason why the Irish pubs seem to be such a success in somewhere like Madrid, but the expat bars struggle on the costas. Interestingly the Spanish love to use the Irish pubs in Madrid, plus of course there is a community of expats who work there and so can be regular customers.

Lynn R

I once saw a Spanish customer order a meal in the British-run bar I commented on earlier. Her face when a "cheese salad" consisting of limp lettuce, sliced tomato and a small pile of grated, plastic orange cheese was put in front of her was priceless. I haven't come across many Brits running bars who are able to speak to Spanish customers in their own language, either. If one of the most vital skills of running a bar successfully is to be sociable and welcoming to all your customers, you're not going to be able to cater to the Spanish market if you can't talk to them, are you?

steviedeluxe

That always does surprise me. I know pubs where the landlords come from India or Europe, and they've always learnt the language. Can you imagine a UK pub where the bar-person doesn't speak English? The only place I know that gets away with it to a degree is the Chinese takeaway where you order by numbers - but they always know how to charge in English!

fionamw

I'm not so sure about this. If we happened to be observing a continual trickle of Dutch/Swedish/German/name another nationality coming to Spain and setting up 'foreign' bars which subsequently failed for lack of sufficient 'foreign', tourist or Spanish trade, wouldn't we be saying the same things? And as for being schadenfreude, I don't think so. There but for the grace of god, or even 'I told you so', or 'brought it on themselves' or any manner of other things, but ENJOYING someone else's failure? Come on!

..........Ok there must be successes, of course.......... how do we find the comparison of numbers, though?


and YES YES YES ref language. Sadly though our Brit bar (and the Dutch one) where they've both made real attempts not only to speak Spanish which is pretty damned important in the campo, but they also have succeeded in getting (some) Spanish trade, there isn't exactly a huge trade to be shared with all the also-struggling Spanish bars.

jimenato

I'm not commenting much on this thread because our bar is in a unique situation and our experience is not relevant to the vast majority of Brit bars in Spain. I agree with much that has been said but would like to make a couple of suggestions. First, I can't help thinking that there is much generalisation going on. There are undoubtedly British bars which do succeed in Spain - I know of bars which were going in 2000 when I first arrived in Spain and are still going strong. Secondly, things have changed dramatically in the last few years - I don't think comments would have been quite so negative 10 years ago.

Lynn R

After the British bar I posted about closed down, it re-opened as a kebab/pizza place (open from 12.00 noon to goodness knows when) run by Pakistanis. The staff seem to change every few months and if they arrive not speaking Spanish, they are always up to speed within a couple of months. The majority of their customers are Spanish. QED.