Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Hell yes. You use resources sensibly. If you want to extend your analogy to the CDS, a sensible police chief would concentrate police officers there with good english, rather than sending them to serve in Extremadura.

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

I don't remember saying that, but even under communism where everyone supposedly had the same(ish), there were no riots but we all know why that was. And it doesn't follow that everywhere there are poor there are riots either. The brave youngsters of the middle east were rioting against oppression and corruption, ours are rioting and looting because they can.

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Yeah, you wanted an answer from me rather than answer the question as to how political correctness causes riots.

I'm not letting that question go unanswered btw.

I said that high coloured areas are more prone to riots. That's a simple fact, and I don't like political correctness any more than the next person.

What I loathe is people who use that to allow their racist sentiments to be expressed.

So, how does pc cause riots?

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

I think you have the wrong person... I NEVER mentioned PC and I'm most definitely NOT racist. What I do hate is mindless thuggery and intimidation by anyone. We live in a democracy and that is how differences should be sorted, and peaceful demonstration.

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Then you should spend as much of your time campaigning for more effective control and investigation of any abuses within the police system, as you do damaging the reputation of those who would agree with you but for the damage you do to their ability to stand up for the right thinking, right doing police bil!It especially saddens me to see bigotry from an intelligent mind.
If I were to say that all British expats in Spain are drunks or criminals who want to own bars!!
That's an equally stupid comment even though there is an element of truth there somewhere.
Bil. what percentage of the police would you say were "recklessly killing, and lying continually about what they had got up to" (paraphrased)? Because it looks to me as if you're saying 100 percent. Or at least over 50%
I wouldn't be stupid enough to say there is no deceit, no corruption, no recklessness. But I'd suggest that 'working to rule' is what the police are forced to do to counteract destructive opinions such as yours.

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Duggan shooting
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14459516

killed by a single shot to the chest, second bullet found in police radio? So who fired that?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/au...k-london-burns

suggestion that second bullet was police issue.

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Peaceful demonstration, whats one of those ?
...or when did we last see a major peaceful demonstration in the UK ?

Problem is that the minute one of the cops is caught on camera as much as raising a finger to one of the scumbags, there'll be one hell of a public outcry and the present disgraceful scenes will take a back seat.

Now if we could only swap cops with Spain for just a few days, thats probably all it would take to straighten out the thinking of some of these mindless numbskulls.

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Yes I agree with this. But who is stirring the mix??

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Oh right. A police issue bullet could never get into the hands of criminals!
But seriously. I don't know wow or why this guy died and of course it should be investigated and the family should be dealt with sensitively. Almost everyone agrees that these extended riots are nothing to do with the initial crime. (On whatever side this turns out to be)

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

For someone who only deals in hard facts, quoting a mere suggestion from a rag like the Guardian with its well known agenda is not really very impressive, no more impressive in fact than those who claim that the Guardian went a long way to help instigate the present unrest.

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

they seem to know their perceived rights, they don't understand where those rights come from or who gives them those rights. However, once they abuse those "rights" they suddenly become little boys and girls who "didn't know what they were doing, your honour".

In the mean time, where are the parents? if the state was to take each child away from the missing parents who wring their hands saying "my little jimmy just doesn't do what I tell him" they would soon be shouting "he's a lovely boy, kind and fits in well with his family and friends, you are abusing our family's human rights".

children learn about parenting from a very early age - from their own parents. as they get older they will use those childhood experiences in bringing up their own children. I shudder at the potential mayhem to come from the 4yo's next door.
:eek:

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

it has already been suggested and reported in The Times that the Duggan gun was wrapped and the bullet hitting the radio was not from that gun.

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

It was mentioned by one of the newspapers last night that the officer who shot, actually shot twice. The first bullet killed him, and the second missed or passed through his body and hit a policeman, hence the bullet in the radio. Who knows.

One thing for sure, if the other gun was carried by Duggan and he turned towards me if I was an armed policeman, I wouldnt hesitate too long before defending myself rather than end up dead through hesitation. Maybe I wouldnt have made a very good policeman, I dunno :lol:

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Great post dude. Your restrained and thoughtful posts are always a delight.

I'm just so impressed with all the other papers who have no agenda at all Coughmurdochcough... and are so honestly and straightforwardly run.

Tell you what, the day you have proof that the guardian hacks into phones like the real rags do, then, and only then can you criticise it.

Okay, so how exactly did the guardian start it? That's a bit ott even for your deranged ramblings.

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Jeeze, Mitz, let's get with the programme. If you throw a petrol bomb at a police officer, and in the process of arresting you, he breaks both your arms, don't come crying to me.

You shoot at a copper, and your corpse has 57 bullet wounds in it, I won't give a damn. i'll buy them all a beer.

However, the day that your corpse turns up with a police bullet in it, and I think they are lying about how it got there, I'll kick up hell.

Now where exactly am I wrong in those sentiments?

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Forgot this. I don't know about you, but were I their training office I would be ripping them another arsehole for allowing one of their own to end up in their line of fire.

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Wrapped eh? Makes me wonder exactly how he fired at the law, unless he was a damn fast wrapper.....

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

We will be able to tell what bullets were in Duggan's gun. Better hope they are all police issue rounds, and he was able to fire a wrapped gun, or else you are going to have to eat those words.....

That shot was all it took to ignite a riot waiting to happen.

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Wrong .... well .... lets think.

Maybe seemingly thinking that what is happening now is justified by one man getting shot by a police officer. Nothing that is going on now can be justified, it is a series of criminal acts. Whereas the actual shooting is being investigated by the PCC, and because of that it seems the Police are unable to comment on what happened until the investigation is complete. Seems that silence is an admission of guilt though doesnt it :lol:

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Oh my god. Are you suggesting that police should be restrained? Be polite? Surely not. Far better to allow the police freedom to be as offensive and provocative as they like. With luck that'll result in more trouble so they can shoot a couple more n*gg*rs without having to worry about being caught.

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Mitz, I'm merely saying that as the police say to us, we mustn'y use excessive force. That applies to them too.

You shoot a burglar in the front, who is a real threat to you, i's ok, it's self defence. Shoot him in the back, it's murder.

If Duggan didn't fire at them, then shooting him was.........(Please insert word)

and lying about it was ................... (please insert word)

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

everyone seems to remember that there was a totally peaceful demonstration about the incident (I believe made up of mostly women (and children?) ) The riot came after that. the rioters were not part of the original demonstration.

have you considered a conspiracy theory in that riots in other places in London in sympathy would be stretching it but in places like Bristol and Birmingham ? ?

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Hell yes is a strange answer because treating people differently is what causes the problems, positive discrimination was one of the biggest social disasters of our time and created so much dissatisfaction with virtually all the population.
A few english speaking coppers is hardly what we are talking about and to call it a analogy is hardly scientific.

Graham

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Agreed.

Graham

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

I doubt whether anyone in their right mind believes that the riots have anything at all to do with the Duggan incident.

Graham

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

So all protests should be banned, we should enlist a massively aggressive response and what? Have them shouting 'Kill the n*ggers?'

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

That's right, and that blazing petrol drum has nothing to do with the idiot that lit a cigarette while standing next to it.

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Didn't we all! Bil hates the world, but especially the police and the clergy, they top his very long list. And Spain was to supposed to make him happy, imagine how he must have been back in UK. :D

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

I believe that the law of the land states that to carry a firearm is illegal, end of arguement, expect what you get. I am sure that if you were in the position of a copper facing someone with a gun you would have the guts to go up to him and say "hand over the gun please."
Yeah right, in this day and age a long time you would last.
Why is it that the people that have the most to say about it are the least likely to put themselve in that position.

Graham

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Then by your arguement all riots should be allowed.
Nice twist to what is really being said.

Graham

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

I have only read reports on the internet but local people appear to be bitterly complaining about the rioters but then I suppose that they do not have a clue either.
I am no great lover of the police but we would be up the creek without them and I bet the real locals are counting their blessings that the coppers are there to help, I know I would.

Graham

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Oh do crawl back under your stone.

Glad to see you give support to church and state so freely and without check.

I bet they love you.

I think you will find I criticise bent coppers and bent priests. Do please explain why that is wrong?

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Blimey, that's a quantum leap in illogic!

I say that peaceful protest should be allowed. I say that my bet is that government will use the current events to stamp down on peaceful protest.

OK, now I'd like you to explain please how in saying that I am actually saying all riots 'should be allowed'.

This ought to be entertaining.

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

that supposed "admission of guilt" is caused by an investigating team endeavouring to ensure they get all the information together and tell the truth about what happened. This takes time.
this is being balanced against instantaneous communication systems for media and others who wish to force their own personal agenda.

despite everything, I believe the police will say sorry if a mistake has happened. I do not believe that to be the case with those who went round setting fire to vehicles (police or other) buildings and looting.

attacking the police trying to stop the violence is one thing, attacking the fire officers who are trying to put out the fires before they escalate to other buildings is another.
some people only got out of their flat above a shop when they smelt the burning. 2mins later they would have been dead.

On the good side, Lord Harris of Carpetright has said that he will do all he can for those from the 28 flats over the torched shop. "if it wasnt for the shop they may well still have their homes"

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Despite all this, the UK police are still the best in the world, which is, in itself slightly worrying.

No-one, except those with a vested interest wants to see a riot, and those involving themselves in criminal activity under the guise of protest, should be identified and punished appropriately.

Oh yeah, bent and criminal coppers too, of course, don't you agree?

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Yeeees. Of course, isn't there something about a late/forced apology is a second insult?

Of course they say sorry. They said sorry about Steven Lawrence.

OK, so it was much later on and at gunpoint, but that made it all better, didn't it?

Maybe if you were black, you might find the lateness of the forced apology a second insult.

What say?

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

the majority of those who have been arrested are not from the immediate locale, having come from outside the area after a call on twitter.

The Independent yesterday sacked its blogger, Jody McIntyre, for instructing his 9,000 followers on Twitter to spread the riots across the capital.

meanwhile at the scene of the Hackney riot locals are pointing out that local police station and town hall, both 1 or 2 streets away, are totally untouched.
(statement from local woman on BBC R4 at 1314)

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

for your own reasons you ignore the second part of my statement

and Steven Lawrence wasnt shot by a policeman

get your facts right !

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Ignoring the comments by people so prejudiced that they post nonsense, we must accept that as a society we are all to blame for what happened. We let a situation develop, right in our midst, where an eventual riot situation became inevitable.

We probably leaned too far to the left for the past 20 years or so, giving too much respect to minority groups which didn't deserve it. Perhaps we hoped to educate them out of their often criminal and destructive ways.

It didn't work and we are now reaping the benefit. The rioters are openly teasing the police officers facing them because they (the rioters) know that the police are restrained from taking any robust action.

A thousand cameras will record every single police officer's move and if they strike a demonstrator with their batons, and that poor rioter dies because he has a dickie heart, then all the weirdos in the world will be screaming police brutality for evermore.

The result is that they have held back, they have hidden behind their shields, largely leaderless, and they do not want to appear at the Old Bailey charged with manslaughter, like one of their colleagues.

I find it funny that the very same lefties and general weirdos shouting for more police accountability are now shouting for them to be more 'robust'.

Re: the breakdown of society?
 

Possibly, I cannot say that they are the best in the world because I do not know but if your read this post of yours it is appears at odds with what you apparently have written earlier and that is why posters jump. What comes over to me is that you believe the police are always at fault no matter what and that I cannot accept.


Graham