Prothium

Bought an apartment in South of Spain about 18 months ago. On the roof terrace the previous owner had built a large concrete storage structure about 10 years ago (without license). This runs along the terrace partition wall adjoining my neighbours terrace. The original wall is under 6 feet high, but the structure means the wall height is around 8 feet in height and 9 feet in length (they see the back wall of the structure which is painted the same as his terrace wall). The structure is not visible from anywhere other than my neighbours terrace (which is used for holiday rentals).

I am now getting some upgrade works done to re-tile and paint the terrace and the community having seen my builders starting work have now asked me to demolish & remove this structure as part of my works. Assuming this request has likely come from my neighbour. The community would have been aware of the structure when it was built and I am assuming they would have requested the previous owner to remove it 10 years ago.

Removing this however would come at significant cost and it is actually a very handy structure for storage which I am keen to keep.

Wondering does anyone know what the legal position is here for a new owner? Assuming there is no retention period in Spain? Is it the town hall who can force you to demolish this or can I apply for a license seeing as it has been there so long?

Moses2013

Everything is passed on to the next owner. I do hope you used a solicitor and did he or she inform you about this. I also hope you have the license for current works?
A Certificate of Antiquity is the only document that can make these works accepted by the planning department at the Town Hall and can also be used for updating the Title Deeds.

missile

You ought to have verified that the structure was approved before you purchased the property.
You could try to obtain retrospective approval.
If you do not remove it the town hall can have the structure removed at your cost.
You ought to have applied for permission before starting your "upgrade works".

el collado kid

This has happened where i live but with villas not an apartment block.My advice is go to the town hall be honest and open with them and ask for retrospective planning.They are the only ones who can decide whether you can keep it or not.I would imagine some of your neighbours have all ready been there.Best wishes

Prothium

Hi Moses, many thanks for the reply. I was aware from my solicitor when buying the property the storage room was built without a license and the town hall could ask to demolish it. At the time, my plan was to actually remove it anyway but have grown to find it really useful. New to Spain and trying to get up to speed with property law! I naively just presumed that as it had been there so long that it wasn't an issue for the community or my neighbour. My understanding was that it was built 20 years ago but the community are telling me it was 10 years ago. I get on very well with management as have stayed in the complex for years and they had never mentioned anything about it either before I bought it or during the last 18 months I have been there until now. I feel it is likely the neighbour seeing new owners and buiding work who is now pushing for this.

My understanding is that legally there used to be a retention period of 4 years but since 2014, the LOTUP laws have made this up to 15 yrs. I'm in Estepona so unsure what the period is. Can I only apply for a Certificate of Antiquity any time after construction or must if be after this time period? When applying for this, could the town hall refuse it and as it has been brought to their attention, now ask you to demolish it?

When you mention license for current works, you mean license de menor? This is all new to me so bit of a learning curve. It would seem you need this for minor works including painting / retiling?

Prothium

Hi Missile, was aware structure was built without license and that town hall could ask me to remove it. New to Spain and first property here so bit of a learning curve as I go along here. At the time, I had actually planned on removing it but having lived there, now find it really useful as extra storage and gives added privacy (partition walls are very low to the extent you can look over wall easy enough). Yes, clearly should have applied for permimssion before doing my works. For some reason, assumed that as it was built so long ago naively thought that retention might apply and as it hadn't been demolished there wasn't a major issue with the neighbours or the community. Have been staying in the community for 5 years before buying there and get on very well with management who never mentioned any issue with it prior to now. Other apartment holders in the complex have built things without license there and these structures all remain in place.

For seeking retention, would you recommend an architect or property lawyer?

Prothium

Hey El Collado Kid,

Any idea if the town halls are fairly strict?

My neigbours bought off plan 20 yrs ago along with the previous owner who built this storage room. I don't know what discussions were held between them or management when this was originally built or whether the town hall was involved. Other owners in the complex has built or erected things in the past without a license and have been asked to remove them by the communit..but they don't seem to follow up on it. Trying to gauge if they are simply asking the new owner in the hope he will remove it as the previous owner obviously refused. As an aside, do the town halls staff speak any English? Or should I get an architect or property lawyer to look into it?

missile

You are not alone, many think the rules are lax and made to be broken.
I would suggest you ask your friends, maybe not your neighbours <LOL> who they would recommend to make your retrospective planning application.

Fred James

Normally, the community has to approve the building work before the Ayuntamiento will issue a licence. However, they have very limited abilities to enforce their decision.

So, if it's the community who are trying to get you to knock it down, you can probably ignore it, (and put up with the aggro) but if it's the Ayuntamiento, you must take notice. However, if it's been there for some time and they haven't objected so far, you may get away with it.

Moses2013

Yes now you have to pay for the minor works license at town hall. You might be better off talking to planning officer at town hall and maybe ask about the storage room. If you are honest it's better than worrying for years if neighbours might report. Once it's in rhe papers neighbour's can't complain either and easier to sell in future.

Dxf

Hola

In Andalucia, the law of administrative silence was changed from four years to six years a couple of years ago. There was a move to change it to eight years but this was dismissed. My thought is that unless there is an outstanding order, then it can stay.

Davexf

el collado kid

Hi.our townhall is very strict indeed and you need a licence for anything and everything.They speak little english.In our area you are not aloud to build anything that can be habitable or extend the footprint of your property they do regular drive by's and the police call if you do not have a licence.But saying that if you have a problem our townhall are very fare and helpful

snikpoh

I think that change is pretty national now

Prothium

Spoke to my builder who asked a colleague and now saying retention period is 15 years. I had read somewhere about a LOTUP law passed in 2014 for things like extensions which also suggested this time period etc. He advised me that bringing it to the attention of the town hall might make them ask me to remove it so am unsure as to what I can do.

I think the 6 year period you mentioned is perhaps in relation to building without license on agricultural / rustic land?

At a push, I would consider removing the storage but would definitely want to retain the back of the structure which provides a higher partition wall. The neighbours have their place rented on a weekly basis so there are always various random tenants who can be quite loud/partying and playing loud music etc so am keen to retain the higher wall for added privacy and security.

I may propose the above to the community but am unsure if the community might report it to the town hall etc. I would assume they would have contacted the town hall in the past when it was built if they were going to? And even if the town hall ask you to remove it, do they really tend to follow up on smaller things like this if it was just the higher partition wall that remained?

mikelincs

I suppose it may well depend on who is doing the complaining, someone with friends at the town hall will have more power than just a normal neighbour, we raised a wall between us and a neighbour because he had two American bull breeds, which could leap, and did the wall between us, in fact one came down our stairs in the house when we had the upstairs door open. These were a breed banned in the UK, and should have been kept muzzled in Spain, we went to the community committee to ask permission and were granted it. At the next community meeting this neighbour got up and complained about it, he was quickly told that we did have permission, and also warned that his dogs were being a nuisance with their barking, and warned that, even though he had a license for them, they had to be muzzled any time they were out and couldn't be left on the upstairs terrace. But community people do have powers, they can even have people forced to sell their property if they constantly flout rules. A previous owner of the property we bought had that happened to them, they just wouldn't pay their dues, so after a couple of years they had the place sold to cover the amount owed, and the rest was returned to owners.