Dick Dasterdly

http://elpais.com/elpais/2014/05/14/...95_322476.html

Very interesting insight into the workings of the Spanish Black Economy.
Why it has become even worse during the Crisis.
The operations of backstreet sweatshops and how the Chinese have muscled in illegally and taken over a large part of the businesses.

andyrich666

It is very interesting and in fact it answers a question of why it has in some way got this way, but the thing is they still don't change it, if its blindingly obvious, do something about it, unless there is reason to not upset the current legal people / companies ?

I speak to a few people now and they absolutely resent being legal because they see black market every day of their lives, or more so wasted money on corruption and etc

HBG

Most of the time ordinary people could not be legal even if they wanted to be, the entire system is only geared up for the black economy. I've long given up trying to pay against legal receipts because people don't have them, none of them, from lawyers to dentists to estate agents to the town hall, it's all under the table cash payments.

Just like Rajoy's and the other politician's salaries.

I've mistranslated the Spanish proverb but it says that if you build up too much wind it will blow you away.

me me

When people feel that their country gives them nothing, the don't want to be legit.

Although Spanish property buyers are shaken down for tax on the purchase price at the off.

So although it seems as though the don't contribute on a regular basis, they have paid quite a lot of tax upfront.

I know a lot of returned Spanish folks who were property owners in the UK, and compare the 2 systems, will not pay 1 cent more than they have to and are quite openly ruthless in their pursuit of not handing anything over.

HBG

For some reason I've come across several 'returned' Spanish folk recently; it probably ties in with the workers who went abroad during the post war period reaching pension age and finally returning home, or sending their children home to deal with inheritance matters.

You would think that having lived in Britain or Germany and paying proper taxes all their foreign lives, they wouldn't object to paying Spanish taxes on their return, but they are vehemently opposed to paying anything to a state they were forced to leave as young people and which they consider to have done nothing for them.

But the state has, hasn't it? It has welcomed them back into the fold and looked after their Spanish holdings for all those years.

And Spain needs the money.

Dick Dasterdly

I think most people object to paying taxes if they can get away with it, especially when they see how much of their money is squandered on useless projects or lazy b........ who prefer to sit on their arses all day.

However apart from tax dodging being a cultural thing or almost a way of life down here I get the impression that the tax collectors are not very efficient.

OK there's lots of tax evasion and avoidance in most countries, but as far as the UK is concerned for instance, a business man is considered guilty until proven innocent and I think this has the desired effect on many people, however I get the impression that the same is not the case here in Spain and dodging is comparatively easy ?.

Another major factor down here of course is the efectivo culture and nothing much has changed in that respect, in fact I much prefer it myself personally , whereas in N. Europe plastic rules, plus data and a paper trail a mile wide that is very easy for the tax man to cotton onto in most cases.

rspltd

A close friend of mine has recently sold his apartment and the 3% was duly retained by the Notary. He had had the place for over 10years as a non resident. When he bought it he was advised not to make a tax declaration or pay the annual renta tax which he never did. Three months ago he received notification from the hacienda that they were paying back the retained money plus interest which they duly did!