The Big Anniversary
 

I know the big world changed after 9/11, but so did my little world. After a day of watching the horrendous events on television, I threw away our travel plans and cancelled the booked accommodation where I was able to. We were going to start in the Middle East, after a lifetime of planning and saving.

We did travel to the US a few years later and the indignity of our treatment by the border guards was beyond belief. Even the more frequent visits to the UK were spoiled by the new security checks.

But what really disturbs me is the Muslim hatred in the UK, reciprocated all the way. I can't see that getting any better in my lifetime.

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I suffered their treatment before 9/11 whilst transiting through and swore never to go back. :thumbdown:

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Maybe you would have a different view if you had been born female, which in the muslim religion means that you are quite often classed as a worthless object to be disposed of in brutal way, as the following article shows.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news...o-2869392.html

What is most sickening is the silence of the females in the family(living in the UK), and I bet that there are quite a few people in their circles who knew or guessed what had happened, and they also kept quiet.

Which to me shows that they have no respect for British law, and I for one thank my lucky stars that I was not born to a muslim family, as I got pregnant before marriage, and might not be alive today to tell the tale.

There are threads on here talking about being embarassed by the level of Spanish spoken by expats and tourists to Spain.

I wonder if there are any threads in a similar vein on Muslim forums, talking about being embarassed by the "honor killings" and forced marriages committed by their fellow muslims

A lot more serious than not being fluent in a languge don`t you think?

At least the police in Spain do not have to deal with that sort of thing from the British expats, with all the time and money involved.

So is there really any mystery as to why the ill feelings against muslims in the UK exist?

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Every time the Yanks gob on about 9/11, I remember all the IRA attacks funded by them, supported by them and all the IRA terrorists they treated as honoured guests.

So, in one sense, 9/11 was a case of the Yanks getting a taste of what they had been happy to dish out over the years.

My only sorrow was that the twin towers hadn't been stuffed full of just the Americans who had supported terrorism.

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The differences between cultures will always be a source of excuse/reason to like or dislike others. Some things in one culture are abhorrent to others but the norm for those brought up in it. Your view of life in all ways/forms is your way not the way of all. Maybe if some cultures/people stopped thinking their way was the only way the world would be a better place.


I don't see the connection that leads to a disrespect of British law, it is their law that decided the way females are looked upon and treated, would you speak up if you were one of them and then possibly suffer the same fate or worse ? People live by their laws not by the laws of others, not many change their culture to that of the country they are living in if different from their home country.

The 'when in Rome' ethic is not applied by the majority, we, collectively, tend to live by our laws and complain loudly when dealt with in the laws of the country we have moved to.

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Right, so you can´t understand that it is disrespectful of the law to kill a British born woman in the UK because of a difference in culture?

And I bet you would cry out "disrepect" if a British woman showed her body in the streets a country where that is frowned upon, and say she deserves being punished..........:confused::confused:

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I do not know the story, if the woman was british born to a family whos culture she was brought up with then it is their way. I do not say it is right, but is their way. They are doing no less than many who go to countries with no drinking laws and take/go drinking, nor steal in countries where hands are cut off.

I was not brought up in a strict set of religous beliefs, I am more tolerant of others ways, they may be good bad or simply different but they are their ways.

My view is that if you live in a culture different from the way you were brought up or the way you want to live then you should still respect the ways of others. If you break the law of a country you are in then yes you are not above the rules and why should you be treated differently ?

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My attitudes are quite simple. If you want to apply genital mutilation to your children, insist that women wear a bag over their heads, and wish to live by sharia law, then you should bugger off back home and leave the rest of us to live a civilised life in peace.

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Nailed right on the head.
Truly amazing how their attitude changed once they suffered a dose of the same medicine.

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The UK was no angel either, but look at how many countries have had their elected governments trashed or overthrown with US support. Their country was formed from the genocide of most of the idigenous peoples, they screwed with almost every country in Central & South America, the middle east was set against the west due to the US and the UK messing with their governments, Grenada, the list goes on.

Yeah, once they needed our support they soon decided that perhaps funding the IRA wasn't such a good idea...

The US is no friend to us, or any other country. I get pig sick of them going on about how they saved us in WW2.

They came late to the task, weren't the biggest help and now take all the credit.

If one country saved us in WW2, it was the Russians. They lost more soldiers than the US and the UK put together, and were it not for them facing slaughter keeping the Eastern front open against the Nazis, we would never have been able to cross the channel and invade Europe.

Their people were slaughtered in the death camps and used as slave labour.

About time the yanks started recognising that, and stopped trying to hog all the glory.

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I found out, quite recently, that you need to be careful with your prejudices. I had to visit a part of east London where I used to live and where I still own a flat. The whole place has turned Asian over the years but that doesn't bother me.

I went into a pub I last visited many years ago and said to the Asian landlord that there was a rather nice looking Mosque on the next corner, which was true. He gave me an old-fashioned look and I could see the bouncer sitting in the corner suddenly becoming interested in the conversation, so much so that he came and joined me at the bar.

He was a giant Jamaican and asked me what I had said to upset his boss. I shrugged my shoulders and mentioned the Mosque on the corner, drinking my pint as fast as I could.

The bouncer laughed out loud. 'Where have you been, Honky? That's not a Mosque, it's a Hindu Temple.'

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:thumbup:my feelings too.

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I agree too, but if you say that you are immidiately accused of being racist.

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I bet a lot of spanish wish half the moaning expats would buggar off back to their countries and stop interferring with their ways !

Pots and kettles.

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Most Spanish never give the Brits a second thought.

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Hahah is that right ? the way you read it around about they are as peed off with them as they were with their own country then came here to do the same.

Maybe it is all hyped but whatever it adds up to, for me I wish countries would keep their noses out of others and leave them to live how they want. If they want to kill each other, treat their own badly then so be it. It may not be right as others see it, nor decent or even human. If you don't like how they live don't live there and leave them to their ways. Who gave anybody the right to make others change their beliefs.

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I think you have got this arse about face, the Honour killings are being carried out in the UK, as is the one where the parents have been arrested for murdering thier 17 year old daughter, so are you suggesting that the British people in the UK should up sticks,move and leave them to their ways, and they have not right to interfere?
That is way I read your post

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I'm not racist but I too agree with that.

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bil, add to your list that all GDY's including Obama have to visit Ireland to visit their roots.
when I recently read the list of Founding Fathers there wasnt a single Irishman there.

i remember the IRA bombings in London, the mess made not only of the Nat West tower but all the adjacent streets - not just buildings. the blast travelled in all directions straight down the streets. horrendous
then there was the Baltic Exchange.......

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I could give you a very full response to that but I won't as I expect I would be accused (not by you) of being racist. I live in a city with a large number of Muslims who use their religion "to advantage". It isnt just the Christians but also every other religious minority here that finds them totally impossible to deal with, telling everyone theirs is the religion of peace whilst practicing the opposite...
Until they stop burning the Union Flag and holding celebrations everytime a British soldier (irrespective of religion) is killed in Afghanistan it will not get better. So probably not even in your children's lifetime.

kr

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I have already been called Racist in another thread here this week but I still agree

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sorry, I hold you in respect - but not this time

that is normally called "live and let live" or using the new fluffy bunny words Diversity and Integration
to live in a country where my ancestry goes back before the time we ruled France and be told by someone that I must integrate with them is when I lose my rag.


You are wrong morally and legally on all counts. The law of the land is just that The Law of the Land. If you were living in the UK you wouldnt even think of just living by the bits you find "convenient". Why should someone walk into your street and start telling you how you will live bcause they have been brought up differently ? Women gave their lives less than 100 years ago, so in living memory, for the right to vote and to be their own person - and you want to throw it away ??

Yes, Brits in Spain complain about the differences in the culture, the laws, the everything about living here. But they obey the laws !!
If this country decided to eject all Brits but allow the Germans to stay, that would be wrong but we would still have to comply (as did the Jews in 1290)
Brits have integrated and at least one has become mayor of a spanish town.

if a group of people want to live in the Uk then they live under UK law. If they want to impose their "law" on the UK then they will fail.
If they - irrespective of race, religion, creed or bumps on the head, - wish to live in the UK then they live there by the law of that land.

To allow anything else is allow anarchy - and switch the lights off on your way out

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I do not live in the Uk and seldom read news or watch TV. The way you read my post is not what I said. The ways a country as far as I can see it are their ways where ever it be. If you live in a country that has different ways to yours then you should respect their ways and abide by the laws of that country.

I obviously have been misunderstood.

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Domino I have as I said obviously been misunderstood. I said you should abide by the countries rules. IE people moving to UK should abide by that countries rules and culture. How I got misunderstood I do not know.

I had to laugh at "But they obey the laws !" some do many don't.

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You have to remember that Islam is still a young religion. 500 years ago xtianity was as bad if not worse. You'd get burned alive for translating the bible into English.

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The Islamic conquests or Arab conquests began with the Islamic prophet Muhammad.

1 Byzantine–Arab Wars: 634–750
2 Conquest of Persia and Iraq: 633–651
3 Conquest of Transoxiana: 662–709
4 Conquest of Sindh: 664–712
5 Conquest of Hispania (711–718) and Septimania (719–720)
6 Conquest of the Caucasus: 711–750
7 End of the Umayyad conquests: 718–750
8 Conquest of Nubia: 700–1606
9 Incursions into southern Italy: 831–902
10 Conquest of Anatolia: 1060–1360
11 Byzantine-Ottoman Wars: 1299–1453
12 Further conquests: 1200–1800

and it carries on today

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When the crusaders conquered Jerusalem, they killed indescriminately, and the streets ran red.

When Saladin conquered Jerusalem, everyone was told that they were free to go and worship where they pleased, and there would be no reprisals.

It's not all black and white.

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Unlike you bil I wasn't there so I can't comment

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I wasn't either, but my mate was. He said it was the biz.

Given that you commented on all the early Muslim wars, can I take it that you were there ?

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No bil but my father was ;)

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perhaps you were just having a bad day with the keyboard - don't worry about it too much.

after all I am also allowed to be a bit tongue in cheek with the "But they obey the laws" bit. It matters not which country you go to, there are always people who will break laws, surely thats why they are there - to be broken, otherwise why does everyone spend so much money on police forces.?

perhaps in the jungles of Amazon or Borneo there are people who have no word for theft, or murder - but they will have a word for retribution and no police force.

gn

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well thanks for that reminder Fred, considering that is is a peaceful religion it seems the only way it can promote its "benefits" is by force.
and there was me thinking that it was only Christianity that caused wars, but even that isnt true, because they were mostly in defence of the religion and men of god were seen as men of peace. I don't think there is a time where war was started to force the religion onto people, just in its defence.

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as Mohammed claimed to have been visited by the Angel Gabriel in 612 he isnt that far behind the earlier Christians, and he had knowledge of Christianity and saw the Christian prophets (and understood Jesus to be one) as part of his own beliefs, I cannot understand why there is all the animosity with what is essentially a sect of the Christian faith in the same way as the Lutherans, Methodists and Congregationalists.
Islam is much older than Sikhism which is only a little over 500 years old.

burning alive of heretics who wished to translate the Bible from the Latin to English was seen as bringing it to the people and circumventing the stranglehold the Holy Roman Catholic Church had on the religion.

but then there was also a time when only those who had studied divinity at university were allowed to practice astronomy.

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It´s great that the day appears to have passed without any nasty events.

Graham

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Religious movements, including ours, are the biggest warmongers this world has ever seen and whilever there are such gullible people there will be no change.

Graham

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Agreed but maybe the terrorists are using a different calendar

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I thought it was pretty nasty (no, downright disgusting) when I watched BBC news last night and saw a group of militant Islamists protesting in Grosvenor Square at the same time the memorial service for the British victims of 9/11 was taking place - carrying placards saying 'Islam will dominate the world' and American flags with 8.46 painted on them, which they then burnt.

These people are abusing Britain's traditions of tolerance and free speech and I think it is outrageous that this was allowed to go on. Is there not still an offence of conduct likely to cause a breach of the peace in the UK?

I have no objection to people being able to follow their religion of choice (although I personally have no religious belief) but the law of whatever country they are living should always take precedence over any religious or cultural practices, whatever they may be.

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or are waiting for everyone to sit back, give a big sigh, and think they won't dare !

that the incident(s) of 9/11 were so well planned, were so successful, why haven't they been able to do it again ?
not necessarily in the much hated US of A but in other countries around the world who support the US.
the incidents that have occurred, i.e. the London bombings on tube and bus, were horrific but quite small beer in comparison, and from the information that has been in the public domain, poorly planned and executed.

regrettably, without shutting down society to live in fear of every knock at the door, extremists will always be able to find chinks in the armour that society uses to protect itself.
having just watched what at times was a rather confusing plot in the film Vantage Point things planned from within can stand better chance of success.

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Well said !
and ISTR one or two people called me racist here when I protested at such abuse of our home country's openness and friendliness.

yes the intelligence machinery will have their faces marked out, but in the meantime are they in receipt of benefits? if so these should be stopped, but then it will be said their families will suffer so the fluffy bunnies will ensure this doesn't happen. everyone should pay for the consequences of their actions.
when letting off bombs in London, did the bombers think "I shouldnt do this just yet, this person has a family?" No, but AFAIK the families of said bombers are in receipt of benefits.

we are from a country, a society, that is too soft - enabling such people to do such things with impunity. Any efforts to tighten up or stop them will be met with cries of Racism! which frightens people off faster than anything.

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Totally agree with you. We do not have UK television so were not aware of this.

Rosemary