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BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

Old Dec 17th 2012, 9:18 am
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Default Re: BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

Originally Posted by missile View Post
Maybe you would have been better to save your comments until you had?

I have no doubt Guggenheim is wonderfully uplifting as are the new buildings in Valencia. One point the programme made was Valencian (and no doubt Bilbain?) residents would rather see their money spent replacing temporary school buildings, hospitals and crumbling social services which would directly benefit their daily lives.
Of course they would now with hindsight, but these were commissioned many years ago in the middle of the boom when everyone though business could only get better - and spending would only ever get greater, houce prices higher etc etc

The biggest problem with these projects is that they lacked a plan for their use - now many are like Victorian follies, nice to look at but completely lacking in function. That is the scandal. I have no problem with a building costing a billion euros if it is put to good use.

Wembly stadium cost a billion euros and the Millenium Dome cost almost that much, at least they both are regularly used and probably make money
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Old Dec 17th 2012, 9:25 am
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Default Re: BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

Originally Posted by cricketman View Post
Of course they would now with hindsight, but these were commissioned many years ago in the middle of the boom when everyone though business could only get better - and spending would only ever get greater, houce prices higher etc etc

The biggest problem with these projects is that they lacked a plan for their use - now many are like Victorian follies, nice to look at but completely lacking in function. That is the scandal. I have no problem with a building costing a billion euros if it is put to good use.

Wembly stadium cost a billion euros and the Millenium Dome cost almost that much, at least they both are regularly used and probably make money
Well, making money is in itself a capitalist crime. I reckon we should invest in more things that don't make money. Only then will everything be much fairer to all those who don't.
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Old Dec 17th 2012, 9:27 am
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Default Re: BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

I think you will find Guggenheim, Wembley Stadium and the Dome are all heavily subsidised.

Who is "everyone", I doubt Bilbao residents wanted Guggenheim? When you watch the programme you will learn that some did speak out against these vanity projects and were overuled by those with their nose in the trough.

Last edited by missile; Dec 17th 2012 at 9:34 am. Reason: spelling
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Old Dec 17th 2012, 9:50 am
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Default Re: BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

Many galleries, centres etc. were built without any budget to run them

A good article here

http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-ne...s-in-the-room/
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Old Dec 17th 2012, 9:50 am
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Default Re: BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

Originally Posted by missile View Post
Maybe you would have been better to save your comments until you had?
One point the programme made was Valencian (and no doubt Bilbain?) residents would rather see their money spent replacing temporary school buildings, hospitals and crumbling social services which would directly benefit their daily lives.
Valencia is well served with state hospitals with two new ones built and completed within the past four years in fact I was astounded at the amount of state and private hospitals when I first arrived and now now there are even more.
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Old Dec 17th 2012, 9:51 am
  #21  
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Default Re: BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

Did you see the programme?
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Old Dec 17th 2012, 9:55 am
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Default Re: BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

I have just watched it - a lot of it was filmed in areas I know very well. I thought,for once, it was a very balanced and well presented programme. Amazing how Zapatero thought the banking system was well regulated given the extremely weak management (and corruption?) in some of the cajas. I thought the CAM got off lightly in the programme.
Also I was surprised that the international investors (Chinese and Russian) were not mentioned.
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Old Dec 17th 2012, 10:04 am
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Default Re: BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

Originally Posted by spainrico View Post
Also I was surprised that the international investors (Chinese and Russian) were not mentioned.
Probably cos most of them don't exist...a flea on an elephants arse
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Old Dec 17th 2012, 11:53 am
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Default Re: BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

Originally Posted by missile View Post
Did you see the programme?

Yes I have watched it and there is no mention of hospitals at all. Shame really but would ruin yet another BBC propaganda piece.

The City of Arts & Sciences was there 11 years ago when I moved here.

Last edited by whitelinen; Dec 17th 2012 at 11:56 am.
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Old Dec 17th 2012, 12:07 pm
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Default Re: BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

You may well disagree with some of the program but to just fob it off as BBC propaganda is silly. Why can no one point out what has happened in Spain without being rubbished? All is not rosy in the garden I am afraid especially for the young either in Spain or the UK for that matter. There are problems within the EU just as there are in the UK why should that never be mentioned and if it is be rubbished. There are problems with the Euro fact, some of them they are trying to sort out but just maybe they should have put a bit more thought into it before introducing it. I love having a house in Spain but I also still love my home country as well, I didn't choose to buy in Spain because I hated the UK (some may), it was a choice to improve my lifestyle in retirement. To just put our heads in the sand and ignore what is staring us in the face will not get anyone out of the mess that various governments have got us into.
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Old Dec 17th 2012, 12:21 pm
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Default Re: BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

Originally Posted by whitelinen View Post
Yes I have watched it and there is no mention of hospitals at all..
You seem to have missed the interview with the pharmacist who had not been paid for months wringing her hands because she had no cash to buy medicines for those suffering with angina, hypertension and diabetes? The piece about makeshift schools made out of shipping containers was more BBC left wing propoganda?
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Old Dec 17th 2012, 1:03 pm
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Default Re: BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

"Valencia is well served with state hospitals with two new ones built and completed within the past four years in fact I was astounded at the amount of state and private hospitals when I first arrived and now now there are even more".

.....and where did the money come from to build all this - not from Spain for sure. Spain has been a net recipient of EU funds since it joined the EU - now it's being required to make a contribution, that's when the trouble is starting.
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Old Dec 17th 2012, 1:36 pm
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Default Re: BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

Originally Posted by rspltd View Post

.....and where did the money come from to build all this - not from Spain for sure. Spain has been a net recipient of EU funds since it joined the EU - now it's being required to make a contribution, that's when the trouble is starting.
That isnt true at all, Spain's problems come mainly from two areas

1. Spain cannot refinance its debt cheaply
2. 50% of government revenue in 2007 came from property sales tax. Now that house sales are at rock bottom, that takes away a huge amount of money which is needed to fund education, health etc etc

The EU has helped Spain build a great transport network, but dont think they had too much to do with hospitals

The Spanish government bodies have spent as if the economy was always going to grow, when it hasnt grown in 5 years. That is why there is no money left.

By the way, exactly the same thing has happened in the UK and US with just one very important difference. They can refinance their debt much more cheaply on the markets - and can simply print money off on the printing press to pay public employees. Which is why even with all the Euros problems it is still holding up against the dollar and pound.

If the markets ever stop buying UK or US debt then that will cause a huge crash in those countries which will make the Spanish crash look insignificant

Last edited by cricketman; Dec 17th 2012 at 1:38 pm.
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Old Dec 17th 2012, 2:49 pm
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Default Re: BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

For those who did not see it ......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...Spanish_Crash/

Last edited by Rotor; Dec 17th 2012 at 2:51 pm.
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Old Dec 17th 2012, 2:57 pm
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Default Re: BBC2 The Great Spanish Crash

Originally Posted by cricketman View Post
That isnt true at all, Spain's problems come mainly from two areas

1. Spain cannot refinance its debt cheaply
2. 50% of government revenue in 2007 came from property sales tax. Now that house sales are at rock bottom, that takes away a huge amount of money which is needed to fund education, health etc etc

The EU has helped Spain build a great transport network, but dont think they had too much to do with hospitals

The Spanish government bodies have spent as if the economy was always going to grow, when it hasnt grown in 5 years. That is why there is no money left.

By the way, exactly the same thing has happened in the UK and US with just one very important difference. They can refinance their debt much more cheaply on the markets - and can simply print money off on the printing press to pay public employees. Which is why even with all the Euros problems it is still holding up against the dollar and pound.

If the markets ever stop buying UK or US debt then that will cause a huge crash in those countries which will make the Spanish crash look insignificant

Put another record on Cman, that one's wearing a bit thin.

The simple fact is that the markets know who they can trust to meet their obligations and liabilities and who they wouldn't even trust with the bairns piggy bank.
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