Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

Really would appreciate some advice. Here is my situation;

Tired of living in isolated, parochial and rather boring Australia and tired of the whole Australian attidude that permeates the place (some might be familiar with what I am talking about...."this is the best country in the world blah blah", the nanny state that tries to regulate every aspect of ones life).

Have lived in the UK for many years and spent many months in Europe and love Spain.....want to move there.

My stituation: I have an EU passport (Polish, though am essentially Australian with a Polish born mum), have two kids who don´t but can get EU passports with no problem, and a partner (we are legally wed) who only has an Aussie passport (despite being the only actual European in the family-from Moldova/non EU).

Anyway in Spain atm and firstly have noticed that the rules have changed. Nice lady at the Girona national police told me I need to show financial means (no problem) and an EU health card to get residencia. Rang the Polish consulate and they told me there is no way I can get this as I have never paid taxes in Poland (totally understandable). She told be she can however give me a certificate stating that I cannot get this and the Spanish authorities should be happy with a private health policy copy...confirmed this at the office and the lady said that should be fine. How certain can I be that this is fine.....am I up for a major stuff around and sleepless nights?

I have means to support my family and am thinking of just chanceing it, bringing the family and simply applying for residency and kind of just hoping for the best. The basic law as I understand it is that I and my dependants have a fundamental right to live in Spain (and won´t likely be locked up and deported as in Australia anyway)....and if it all fails, well it will be an extended holiday.
What challenges do I face? On the surface, Spain seems a rather stright forward and friendly place compared to highly beauracratic Australia. Am I seeing things correctly (I do realise police and beauracrats are much the same everywhere and the onus is on ones-self to understand what they want and come up with it).
I do realise the economy is not in good shape (as opposed to Australia), certainly not coming here to sponge or as a medical tourist (one thing Australia does have is a second to none health system)
I realise some on this site are considering a move to Oz and I personally would advise them not to judge a book by its cover or go by first impressions (and should say despite the Polish passport, no newbie or "Polish plumber" there, dad´s of convict stock and can be said to be part of the Australian establishment in all respects). Happy to give advice on Australia, if by chance someone reads this who is interested in going there, though my advice might be "don´t" unlesss they just won the lottery. Am I being just as naive about Spain?
Any thoughts most appreciated....
(Also just want to say that I find that in a rush to appease xenophobes and the fearlful EU governments have created migration laws that are a contradictory patch-work mess and will eventually bite those that support them. For instance someone with a Slovenian grandfather and a passport on that basis can simply waltz into the UK, while the real life family and kids (who might, for what it´s worth, be of full British extraction) of a living Brit can be stopped if the sponsor can´t show means!...that´s absurd)

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

Hi there,
I am in NSW at the moment. I agree with everything you say about the place, especially the boring self adulation of the population (I know a cruder, much more suitable way of expressing it, but I don't think the mods. would allow it!).
My wife had thoughts of moving here, to be near our daughter, but thankfully, today has seen the light and we will return home to Alicante in six weeks (your post has helped me 'big time', THANK YOU!!!).
I'm afraid I can't give any advice on your medical questions, but can tell you that the medical treatment that I have received in Spain is fantastic. It beets the U.K. hands down!!!!!

John.

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

An interesting post

I currently live in Perth but looking at moving to Alicante.

We are in a similar situation to you, although I have an EU passport (UK) we have lived here for 10yrs and wont qualify for health. Neverthe less we can get private health care (which is a lot cheaper than Australia).

Like you we are very lucky to be able to support ourselves without the need for work and still send our kids to a international school.

The way I see it is lifes too short so just go for it, because of my business my wife is heading over in august until christmas, she will then return for a month or so then i will join her or if things work out the way they meant to, she will not come back and i will join her at christmas.

Spain seems a hell of a lot cheaper and its the simple things im looking forward to, meal out, a beer with a meal (that does not cost the earth), walk in the balmy summer evenings plus the ability to vistit other close countries.

We are looking at the Alicante region, possible Playa Flemenca, my parents lived there for 7 yrs and loved it so thought it to be a good place to start.

Good luck.

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

As Concierge for the Spanish section of BE I would like to say hello and welcome.

BE is a very large expat website, so if you have problems finding your way around we have concierges who will try to direct you. The moderators for the Spanish forums are Mitzyboy and Fred James, moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderador who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge of the issues of living in Spain. At the top of the page you will find a quirkily named thread called Free Beer which is full of important and useful information. Hope you enjoy your time participating in the forums.

Please let me know if you need any further help.

Rosemary

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

yes - the right to live here - but you do need to register

if you can't get the EU health card (S1) then you need to get private healthcare, as said

yes, you might get away with just 'chancing it' - but without those resident registration certs/cards you won't get very far - for one thing, the kids won't get into school & it's becoming more & more difficult on a daily basis - I'm hearing now that some landlords won't rent to anyone without a resident cert, you wouldn't be able to buy a car or property without a NIE at the very least

you can't get a residents bank account without a resident cert either

you say you have an income? is that from work? You'd need to register as self-employed & pay tax & NI - in fact then you'd get access to state healthcare

in any case, you have to do tax returns here if you live here, working or not

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

Hmmm - i will not be working but will have income from investments.

I will not be taking anything from the spanish state, in fact i will be helping by spending moeny in cafe etc.

Kids will be going to international school (ill be paying for that) and will have health insurance (1m paying for that paying for that).

i do not plan to work but i still need a tax return right?

What if im on a very, very, very long holiday?

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

welcome to those who don't believe all the Oz myths
:thumbup:
as you are finding, there are a lot of "new rules" with regard to people, even those who are normally EU resident, in moving to most countries. This is to stop medical and benefit tourists who come for what they can get without having paid into the system.
so you may find you will have to jump thru hoops and prove all sorts of things about yourselves and your ability to live without being a burden on the state.

Another thing to remember is that for 4-5months of the year Spain, even down on the Costa Del Sol, can be very very cold. The north is currently heavy rain an d snow above 600metres (and alot of Spain is more than that). You will however think you are back in the outback when it hits 40c or more in the height of summer and understand why the Spaniards take a siesta.

good luck to you and I hope you make it, its a great country and has more hills and rocky bits than you can shake a stick at - I live half a mile above sea level, and that is quite common before getting into the mountains
:eek:

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

looking forward to a bit of cold and the possibilty of skiing

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

then Granada for the Sierra Nevada, 40mins or so to the beach
so ski in the morning, swim/sunbath in the afternoon

:thumbsup:

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

you still have to register as resident & if you live here you have to submit tax returns, yes

it costs something like 10€ each to register & there's no good reason not to imo - it's simple enough too, as long as you meet the income & healthcare reqs., which you would

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

If you spend more than half the year in Spain you will become tax resident and will have to pay Spanish income tax on your income, wherever it comes from.

Also, if the value of your investments exceeds a certain sum you will also have to pay wealth tax.

Under recently a introduced law you will also have to declare exactly what your assets are and where they are situated.

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

Your post made me smile, one gets a niggling feeling about a place and wonders if it is just there imagination. It is re-assuring to discover others see things their way to. The things that mildly irritate you about Oz now will drive you nuts in time. I could add stuff: absurd driving rules, need a license to do almost any business.....

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

sounds like Spain - without the funny language
:rofl:

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

I am very much thinking along your lines: international school, private health, purchase a property and rely on my basic right to be there with my family if any one asks questions. It´s a very different situation to,say, Oz where no outsider has any kind of right to be there unless granted residency. In saying that would ideally like to do things by the book.

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

Sounds like you want to move to Spain because you think it would be easier to do things illegally here

Strange motivation

And from what people say on this forum, Spain has some of the worst beaurocracy in the world, especially if you don't speak the language

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

I accept that....except Spain isn´t thousands of miles from anywhere and I never heard anyone describe Spain as boring. The Spanish don´t tell you all day that Spain is the greatest country on earth and that by simply letting you exist there they are doing you the greatest favour one can do to a living being.
I already sense problems with beauracracy......the alternative is Poland, something I seriously don´t want to do and can´t get my eastern euro wife to agree to.....although Poland is a beautiful country and a great place to visit. The UK (for instance) is no real option, as its new migration laws almost make Australian laws seem soft!!!!!

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

this is a crock of $%&@ - im paying tax in australia so why should i have to pay it elsewhere. I spose i may be able to claim some back but come on why complicate things.

Is it because the ministers in Spain got gready in the boom time and now clutching at straws

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

No I actually just love the place....that was a bit cynical....after all, I guy willing to throw a fair amount of cash into a place is hardly the type of immigrant a country in an economic downturn should not want.....if you read my post all my plans for living there involve injecting money into the system, not taking any out!

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

You can open a Bank account with your Passport..you can rent showing your passport..You can buy a car with your passport..why dont you come to the Canary Isles with all year sunshine :thumbsup:

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

Thanks so much for your welcome, obviously moving abroad is a big decision and forums like this help

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

It's a common rule in most countries that if you are tax resident there you pay tax there on your world wide income.

There is a tax treaty between Spain and Australia that lays down where the tax should be paid and in most cases it will be in Spain. As a result of the treaty it should be possible for most or even all of the tax due in Australia to be exempted under the agreement. Also, generally speaking there are rules to ensure that you don't pay tax twice on the same income by allowing you to deduct tax paid in Australia from any tax paid in Spain.

As I said, it isn't a question of Spain being greedy - it's a general rule of taxation in most countries.

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

I'll say it again....you still have to register as resident & submit tax returns

I can't understand why you wouldn't :confused:

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

I am going through the process now, I certainly do want to register....I am just thinking of plan b in the event that I hit roadblocks, though I see no reason that should happen. However my experience with beauracracy in general has led me to always expect the worst and be grateful if things go smoothly.

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

As long as you have the required income and healthcare then you will have no problems at all. If you have any worries about registering, just use a gestor, they will do it all, but of course they will charge you for the privelege.

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

you won't hit any roadblocks as long as you can prove income & healthcare provision - your wife can register as resident exercising treaty rights as wife of an EU citizen & your children can get EU passports, so that's straightforward enough

if you can afford International school etc, then you should have no problems proving everything, should you?

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

BTW, the income provision is (as of yesterday, so very current)....show 5000 euros in any bank account worldwide.....not exactly a big requirement.

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

yes - that has been frequently reported by those recently registering

do you have this from a linkable official source, or is that just what they told you at the extranjería?

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

I have looked for a link but cannot find, that is what I was told and was written on my form by the police woman who I spoke to. That was in the Girona National Police Office and I have heard that the requirements differ in various regions.

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

yes - I've looked for a link many times over tha past few months too - & yes again - it probably will vary from region to region

in Granada it was reported as 5000€ for a single person & 8000€ for a couple

were you told 5000€ per person or for the entire family??

either way - it does seem rather low - it wouldn't go far at all, would it?

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

I can only guess the idea is to filter out people who cannot even show that at the very least. Wouldnt go far no, but I must say I find prices in Spain reasonable to put it mildly compared to hideously, and in my view unjustifiably, expensive Sydney.

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

and, of course, you can even go into a shop and buy a kilo of bananas without taking out a bank loan, and that's every day.

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

Was in Alicante, beats Perth hands down in all things bar Western Australian sky high salaries (which is obviously a major factor for many)

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

which comes first - the high cost of living or the high salaries to pay for it ??

problem is cost of living can go down - or be driven down by the consumer
but no one will want to give up their sky high salaries

;)

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

[QUOTE=Domino;10483862]which comes first - the high cost of living or the high salaries to pay for it ??

problem is cost of living can go down - or be driven down by the consumer
but no one will want to give up their sky high salaries

;)[/QUOTE

Looking at the way things are in Oz, apart from sporting activities, there is very little to do (not much history!). We seem to spend most of our time in 'Westfields' shopping center (very boring!), and with the dreadful way they drive here, we are lucky to get there alive!!!!!!
Increased trade with Asia, with it's cheaper labour costs, will be their downfall (most electrical goods are now made in China).
Driving round NSW, I have noticed a large number of work places closed down, with 'For Sale' notices outside. So I really think that there are big changes ahead of them! I don't blame the guys for wanting to get away from the place.
The only thing I will say to them is, before buying in Spain, rent a property first and make sure that the area is suitable for you. It is very easy to see things through 'rose tinted' glasses.

John.

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

there should be plenty of history, the problem is many people have used their spare time to eradicate that history as it doesn't suit their new way of life in what they want to treat as virgin land

sounds just like the UK and a direction Spain is taking.
and as to Spanish driving.........

I remember the time that Australia could only think with a British/European head, everything had to be imported using the returning empty ships that had taken the cheap lamb. Australia is part of the Far East and is now realising it cannot remain aloof from what is happening on its own doorstep.
It is a trend that has been gaining speed since the Marshall Plan gave Japan a new manufacturing base. And Japan is suffering as well.

Yeah, its all gone pear-shaped so lets move on instead of staying and trying to work it through. Bodes well for the attitude in any new country they should happen to flit to next.

that is so true, but how many will just pack a bag and arrive ??
Spain is a large country - not as large as Australia, but it would appear to be far more diverse. But finishing at 2pm will suit them, although few IME will want to go back to work at 5pm.

`

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

[QUOTE=Saxy;10484930]I´m with you. I could add to critique of the place but of course someone here will point out that Spain is no utopia (I kind of am aware of that, not sure how anyone could not be).
Australia simply lives off the back of two things, a) low population b) massive mining resources. This creates an overall prosperity that is not in anyway the result of any kind of progressive business practices, imagination or even hard work.
In my view the country is a kind of economic hoax. I should say I had a good life there and none of this is sour grapes. It is a country that might well suit certain types of people but not me. Basically, I simply don´t enjoy living in a place where conversation consists of how much one´s property went up in the last few years, how Australia is the only place anyone sane could possibly want to live in and sport.
Now I am a pretty liberal left-wing kind of guy but might handle racism if it is at least backed up by a decent argument. The ignorant racism and stupidity of that place on the other hand....such as the near universal belief there that the Chinese spend their entire time plotting how to invade Australia (China has a 6000 year history and has only ever invaded nearby territories to itself), or the idea that the entire planet wants to move to Australia!
I have no doubt that such views might exist in Spain. At least Spain has loads of atmosphere and charm, amazing food (I find Australian food plastic and dull) Awesome history, loads to do and explore beyond the beach and barbie(although that exists in spades too). At least in Spain I can get on a train and head to Paris or Amsterdam and am not stuck on the far side of the planet in a bubble. To go as a family to Europe from Australia costs around $20000 and the rest.
Spain isnt absurdly expensive like Australia.
Finally, I find the Spanish nicer people than Australians. I have been here a while and no-one yet has wanted my money for anything but what they deservedly were owed. Australians are fake, have little concept of genuine friendship, and the place seems to be vacuum designed to do little else but suck your money. I might also add that I spent years in the UK....and did NOT find British people like that-I found them fairly decent and honest. They certainly did not spend all day talking up the UK-more like the opposite which I kind of admired. (In fact living in the UK kind of opened my eyes to Australia being not all that, as I come from a family that regards the idea of leaving Australia as virtually a capital crime or a reason to have someone commited as insane).
So yeh, my advice would be go back to Alicante. I should add other Australians do think along my lines, not everyone there loves the place. All that said I am going to Spain more for its pull than the push of Australia.
All that said I am, as I go through the steps, daunted by what I am doing-almost a bit terrified. Spain is culturally and geographically very far from Australia. I am well aware things could all go awry. This is a far cry from being posted by a rather benevolent employer to London. Any advice or tips appreciated.

update
 

Ok so the beauracratic headache has begun.

As mentioned in an earlier post I was given clear instructions at the Girona National Police in writing that in order to become a resident of Spain I needed to show 5000 euros in any bank account, private health cover and a passport.
Went to see a lawyer today to help me with the process and was told totally different story. That I need 15000 euros and 30000 euros per family member sponsored placed in a Spanish bank (bear in mind that I have an EU passport, and my kids can get passports easily). Anyway I whinged about the money and he said I could get around this by registering a company and showing a business plan at a cost of 250 euros. Seems a bit too easy a way to get out of dishing up over 100000 euros!
´
Now rather confused, although was totally expecting this sort of stuff.

Re: update
 

the only place you'll get a definitive answer is at the extranjería - only they know what they will accept

so I'd believe them over the lawyer any day of the week

the requirements the lawyer is stating sound more like those for non-EU citizens - I'd say the lawyer has no clue tbh

even a non-lucrative visa for a non-EU citizen 'only' requires something like $75,000 US (just over 53,000 € )

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

10 years in spain taught me that there are just about no conclusive regulations, just a constant chaotic beaurocracy, i have been given the runaround, told it was not possible etc, then same place next day told to come back with filled in form and receipt fot 10 eur costs from bank...it is somewhat crazy!

I would be tempted to drive down to some little town in valencia and pop into a gestoria and ask them what you need to do, might be a very different story.

once you get your NIE number, a padron, a bank account, a few bills in your name anything is possible...eventually

Re: Aussie wanting to move to Spain
 

Indeed I felt as if this lawyer was doing a lot of residency applications for non eu, and visa requiring nationalities. He kept referring to cases from senegal and china in the conversation....but who knows?

Indeed I put it to him that according to what he was saying it would make no difference if I did the process on my Australian passport or my Polish one....he said yes to this. If this is the case, as far as freedom of movement is concerned an EU passport is worth little in Spain anymore!