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-   -   Applying for residency before EU withdrawal (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/applying-residency-before-eu-withdrawal-934543/)

Alx2021 Aug 28th 2020 8:21 pm

Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
I originally had plans to move to Spain around November time or early December.

I know if you have residency before the December 31st withdrawal date we can stay in Spain.

But I've read it can take weeks/months to get the permit because of all the red tape.

Does that mean you have to have everything done and submitted and receive the residency permit to stay before December 31st?

Or will just submitting the application be sufficient? Should I make the move way before November/early December?

inbarcelona Aug 28th 2020 8:36 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
You need to have started the process by the end of December.
I presume that means that you must at least have an appointment with the Extranjeria Office by the end of December. The Extranjeria Office appointment is the first part of the process and you will require all the documents needed when you attend that appointment.But I guess you could arrive on 31st December and still apply....but not sure how that will work.

bobd22 Aug 28th 2020 8:39 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by Alx2021 (Post 12902987)
I originally had plans to move to Spain around November time or early December.

I know if you have residency before the December 31st withdrawal date we can stay in Spain.

But I've read it can take weeks/months to get the permit because of all the red tape.

Does that mean you have to have everything done and submitted and receive the residency permit to stay before December 31st?

Or will just submitting the application be sufficient? Should I make the move way before November/early December?

If you have appliedby 31 December then there is 6 months (I believe) in order for the application to be processed added on so I believe it is up to the end of June 2021. However one must legally be in Spain before 1 January to start the TIE residency process.

inbarcelona Aug 28th 2020 8:48 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
Bring everything with you. You can now get birth and marriage certificates from the local registrars office in England with a Spanish translation attached. They are little more expensive than the standard certificates but it will save you a lot of money than having them translated in Spain.
Also, bring all your bank statements for the last twelve months.
Unless you are of pesionable age and are entitled to a Form S1 from the DWP, look into into private healthcare in Spain which you will need. It should be with no co-payments and no medical exclusions.

If I think of anything else useful to bring with you I will let you know.

You will need to complete Forms EX20 and EX23. Also bring some photos...passport and drivimg licence sizes.
Open a Spanish bank account as soon as you get here. It will have to be a non-resident account until you get your Residency card...the TIE. You can then change it to a Residents account. I used Deutsche Bank.

The process I found was quite daunting at first, but once I knew what I was doing it was reasonably easy.






inbarcelona Aug 28th 2020 8:53 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
What happens if someone arrives at the end of December. There is no way that they can start the process by 31st. They wouldn´t even be able to get an appointment with the Extranjeria in that short time frame.

Also they will need their Padron Certificate from the Ayuntamiento....and most places will be shut during the Xmas and New year period

inbarcelona Aug 28th 2020 8:56 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
Save your boarding cards to prove you arrived by the end of the year.

inbarcelona Aug 28th 2020 8:58 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
If I were you I would come as soon as you can to set things in motion

bobd22 Aug 28th 2020 8:59 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by inbarcelona (Post 12903007)
What happens if someone arrives at the end of December. There is no way that they can start the process by 31st. They wouldn´t even be able to get an appointment with the Extranjeria in that short time frame.

Also they will need their Padron Certificate from the Ayuntamiento....and most places will be shut during the Xmas and New year period

I don't know tge answer to that I could hazard a guess that if they could prove legally living in spain before 31 December they could still start tge process? However the date is known so prior planning and preperation comes to mind.

Joppa Aug 28th 2020 9:13 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
According to the document published by the Spanish government last month, provided you are resident in Spain by 31st December, you have up to 3 months to commence your residency application, and you will still be covered by the withdrawal agreement. If you need to exchange your driving licence without taking Spanish driving test, you must start the process by 31st December, with an appointment at the traffic office.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/wp...uide-FAQs-.pdf

bolton wanderer Aug 29th 2020 8:55 am

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by inbarcelona (Post 12903003)
Bring everything with you. You can now get birth and marriage certificates from the local registrars office in England with a Spanish translation attached. They are little more expensive than the standard certificates but it will save you a lot of money than having them translated in Spain.
Also, bring all your bank statements for the last twelve months.
Unless you are of pesionable age and are entitled to a Form S1 from the DWP, look into into private healthcare in Spain which you will need. It should be with no co-payments and no medical exclusions.

If I think of anything else useful to bring with you I will let you know.

You will need to complete Forms EX20 and EX23. Also bring some photos...passport and drivimg licence sizes.
Open a Spanish bank account as soon as you get here. It will have to be a non-resident account until you get your Residency card...the TIE. You can then change it to a Residents account. I used Deutsche Bank.

The process I found was quite daunting at first, but once I knew what I was doing it was reasonably easy.


Also, you will need 3 months of bank statements certified by your Spanish bank. You really need to be opening, and using, your non resident account in September to allow you to start the process before 31st December. This is how the immigration will know that you are living in Spain and not just dumping a lump sum for the application.

Good luck.

Joppa Aug 29th 2020 8:59 am

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
Spanish bank account may not be needed, but this depends on where you apply. In Malaga Province, they accept UK bank account with 6-month statement or pensions certificates.

inbarcelona Aug 29th 2020 9:04 am

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
I think every area differs. When I applied for my TIE I was worried that I only had print-outs from my computer for my UK bank account...showing my pension (private, not State as I retired early) going in at the end of each month. I thought they might want the originals, and stamped or authenticated by the bank. Or even Translated....but how do you translate a bank staterment? It´s just numbers and a list of who you have paid or what has come into your account.

In the end though, they didn´t ask for my bank statements.

What I did have with me though was a signed letter from my Spanish bank stating how much was in my NON_RESIDENT account. It was about 34,000 Euros.

That was sufficient for the Extranjeria Office in Barcelona and I was not asked to produce anything else to prove income.

As I say...maybe each area is different. My application was accepted, I had the fingerprints done at the Police Station about 2 weeks later and I´m going to pick up my New TIE next Thursday. I´m quite excited about it.....lol

Joppa Aug 29th 2020 9:17 am

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
I have been told by those who have already received their TIE that it has a white background, called Permiso de Residencia if you have permanente with 10-year validity and Tarjeta de Residencia if you have 5-year card. It says Articulo 50 TUE under Type of Permit. No visible fingerprint on the back, but it's embedded in the biometric chip.

bobd22 Aug 29th 2020 9:26 am

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
We have an appointment in 3 weeks time to collect my wifes TIE. Next thing after that is trying to get an appointment at the INSS Office for medical care. Appointments are very sparse.

bolton wanderer Aug 29th 2020 9:44 am

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by Joppa (Post 12903160)
Spanish bank account may not be needed, but this depends on where you apply. In Malaga Province, they accept UK bank account with 6-month statement or pensions certificates.

That's good to know and may it may be better for the O/P to apply there. Here in the Alicante area they require 3 months Spanish bank statements certified and showing regular use, ie shopping, petrol, restaurants, utilities etc.

O/P....See the guides produced by a really helpful guy on another forum dealing with the Costa Blanca area....https://www.costablancaforum.com/are...o-spain-51724/



ValTay0607 Aug 29th 2020 10:34 am

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by inbarcelona (Post 12903007)
What happens if someone arrives at the end of December. There is no way that they can start the process by 31st. They wouldn´t even be able to get an appointment with the Extranjeria in that short time frame.

Also they will need their Padron Certificate from the Ayuntamiento....and most places will be shut during the Xmas and New year period

I was told by ayuntamiento that I could not register on Padron unless officially resident.

spainrico Aug 29th 2020 10:38 am

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
I suggest you also research official sources here

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-i...ghts-agreement

inbarcelona Aug 29th 2020 10:40 am

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
I registered on the Padron BEFORE getting my TIE (Residency Permit). I think I took along to the Town Hall my rental contract and my Passport.

To get the TIE you definitely need to produce your Padron certificate dated within the last 3 months

bolton wanderer Aug 29th 2020 11:19 am

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by ValTay0607 (Post 12903185)
I was told by ayuntamiento that I could not register on Padron unless officially resident.

Strictly speaking it's illegal to be on the padron when you're non-resident. However, some ayuntamiento's will provide a 3 month temporary padron certificate for residency applications.

see https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/fa...not-plus-faqs/

bobd22 Aug 29th 2020 11:48 am

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by bolton wanderer (Post 12903197)
Strictly speaking it's illegal to be on the padron when you're non-resident. However, some ayuntamiento's will provide a 3 month temporary padron certificate for residency applications.

see https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/fa...not-plus-faqs/

That is true but if the purpose of getting the padron is in order to comply with the Extranjero Office requirement in order to process a TIE residencia application I can't see that it makes any difference as you are obtaining residencia in order to make Spain your habitual home. When I did residencia old green card padron wasn't required so I signed padron after obtaining residencia. For my wifes application which was new TIE the Extranjero Office said they required padron to process the application at stage 1 so we obtained the padron before attending Extranjero Office. What shouldn't happen is a long term non resident being on the padron as their spanish address isn't their habitual home.

snikpoh Aug 29th 2020 12:21 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by inbarcelona (Post 12903187)
I registered on the Padron BEFORE getting my TIE (Residency Permit). I think I took along to the Town Hall my rental contract and my Passport.

To get the TIE you definitely need to produce your Padron certificate dated within the last 3 months


Absolutely false. You need to prove that you live here and some extranjeria accept rental contracts, utility bills etc.

What link do you have that states you MUST be on the padron?

inbarcelona Aug 29th 2020 12:26 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
All I can say is what happened in Barcelona.
I went along with a friend who was applying for his TIE at the same time as me.
At the Extranjeria Office they processed mine....but they wouldn´t do his....they said he had to get his Padron certificate before they would do it.

So don´t say it´s absolutely false. It is what happened in Barcelona.

bobd22 Aug 29th 2020 12:37 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by snikpoh (Post 12903222)
Absolutely false. You need to prove that you live here and some extranjeria accept rental contracts, utility bills etc.

What link do you have that states you MUST be on the padron?

I wouldn't say it is false, I contacted the Extranjero Office by email and they did in their reply say my wife should bring along with other documentation a copy of the padron. As always no doubt different offices have slightly different requirements. We did in fact also take in a recent nota simple re our property to show we owned it outright etc. In my previous comment I mentioned that when I applied under green card residencia it was certainly residencia first padron after that. I still have the email they sent which does say this.

Fred James Aug 29th 2020 1:00 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
My understanding is that a Padron will (probably) be needed for a first time applicant. For exchanging a green card for a TIE it is not required.

bobd22 Aug 29th 2020 1:18 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by Fred James (Post 12903238)
My understanding is that a Padron will (probably) be needed for a first time applicant. For exchanging a green card for a TIE it is not required.

Yes Fred that's correct although if one is exchanging green residencia for TIE reality is they should already be on the padron. However expats themselves can be a little like Spanish authorities and all do different😉

Notdunroamin Aug 31st 2020 3:21 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by inbarcelona (Post 12903009)
Save your boarding cards to prove you arrived by the end of the year.

Boarding cards might prove useful as supporting evidence but of themselves prove only that you boarded a plane or a ferry on a certain date, nothing more.

Fred James Aug 31st 2020 3:59 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
How about date and GPS stamped photos? Whether the disfunctonario behind the desk would be able to cope with that is another question!!

thegolfer Aug 31st 2020 4:16 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by snikpoh (Post 12903222)
Absolutely false. You need to prove that you live here and some extranjeria accept rental contracts, utility bills etc.

What link do you have that states you MUST be on the padron?

NOT FALSE.....I took my friends to apply for theirs last week and they were asked for copy of padron dated within 3 months and this was for a swap from Residencia permenant green card to a T.I.E

bolton wanderer Aug 31st 2020 10:07 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by snikpoh (Post 12903222)
Absolutely false. You need to prove that you live here and some extranjeria accept rental contracts, utility bills etc.

What link do you have that states you MUST be on the padron?

I fully appreciate your comment and I can find no link that states that you must present a padron certificate. However, in the Alicante province, your application will stall without a padron.

Some local town halls are providing 3 month temporary certificates until your residencia is confirmed but I would prefer to present my Escritura & bills. However, this option is not available!

Notdunroamin Sep 1st 2020 5:42 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by thegolfer (Post 12903951)
NOT FALSE.....I took my friends to apply for theirs last week and they were asked for copy of padron dated within 3 months and this was for a swap from Residencia permenant green card to a T.I.E

I suspect they were actually asked just for a Padron, NOT specifically one less than 3 months old.

Based on my own personal experience a couple of weeks ago when I (we) produced a Padron dated 2018!

That was in Alicante btw

Owls Sep 5th 2020 8:16 am

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
I was due to move to Spain shortly and start application for residence in the Malaga area, however due to my wife's illness that has been put back and may not make it together before 31st Dec, so I'm hoping to get down myself late Nov to get residence for myself for my wife to follow early next year, I have all documentation, NIE, bank account and medical in place, so couple of questions please:
Does anyone see any issues with me doing this?
If I apply for a padron do you get that immediately or is there a waiting period of say a week or two?
Can my solicitor apply for the first part of the TIE assuming they have a digital signature and I just turn up for the face to face appointment?
Is the TIE decision/issued on the spot or later?

Many thanks for your help in advance.

Joppa Sep 5th 2020 9:12 am

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by Owls (Post 12905994)
I was due to move to Spain shortly and start application for residence in the Malaga area, however due to my wife's illness that has been put back and may not make it together before 31st Dec, so I'm hoping to get down myself late Nov to get residence for myself for my wife to follow early next year, I have all documentation, NIE, bank account and medical in place, so couple of questions please:
Does anyone see any issues with me doing this?

No issues as it is covered in the withdrawal agreement:
'Family members of United Kingdom nationals shall be beneficiaries provided that they satisfy one of the following conditions:
❖ Have resided in Spain before the end of the transition period and continue to reside here after this period;
❖ Have not resided in Spain before the end of the transition period, but have a direct link with a national of the United Kingdom before the end of the transition period and, at the time when they are to be reunited with them, (e.g. with regard to spouses, dependent ascendants.)'
https://www.machelindiaz.com/wp-cont...BREXIT_ENG.pdf Page 21

You need your marriage certificate, which can either be translated officially through your lawyer, or you can now get a multilingual certificate (state Spanish) from General Register Office. Be careful, it can take a couple of months.


If I apply for a padron do you get that immediately or is there a waiting period of say a week or two?
It should be confirmed immediately but you may have to wait a day or two to get your certificate, and some places charge a small fee (a few euro) for it.


Can my solicitor apply for the first part of the TIE assuming they have a digital signature and I just turn up for the face to face appointment?
No, that isn't allowed. Even if they apply for you online, you still need to be present in Spain at the time of submission.


Is the TIE decision/issued on the spot or later?
Some people who applied in person were told they were approved there and then, while others had to wait a week or two. You are issued with an 'approval' letter valid 45 days, which you need to show when you go to give fingerprints and when you collect the TIE.

thegolfer Sep 5th 2020 9:31 am

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by Notdunroamin (Post 12904462)
I suspect they were actually asked just for a Padron, NOT specifically one less than 3 months old.

Based on my own personal experience a couple of weeks ago when I (we) produced a Padron dated 2018!

That was in Alicante btw

Unless the three of us suddenly lost the power of hearing then they specifically DID ask for Padron less than three months old....this was Malaga

inbarcelona Sep 5th 2020 2:26 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
Yes. Same in Barcelona. Padron certificate less than 3 months old. They won´t continue without it.

Notdunroamin Sep 6th 2020 6:44 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
And yet the government issued English language description of the TIE processes for the various scenarios nowhere as much as mentions a Padron!

https://blogextranjeriaprogestion.or...BREXIT_ENG.pdf

Barriej Sep 6th 2020 8:42 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by Notdunroamin (Post 12906611)
And yet the government issued English language description of the TIE processes for the various scenarios nowhere as much as mentions a Padron!

https://blogextranjeriaprogestion.or...BREXIT_ENG.pdf

The process only mentions proving you are in spain from a set date. The padrón doesn't prove that just the date of issus.
Our solicitor has said we must use our bank cards as much as possible to show that we are residing in Spain. At no point has she said we need a Padron cert for the application and we will be applying at Alicante.
The padrón has been used previously as a proof of address but we will just supply a copy of our deeds, electric bill, water bill and some receipts from Suma from earlier this year.

I may be wrong but will find out from her on the 14th

bobd22 Sep 7th 2020 4:14 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by Barriej (Post 12906651)
The process only mentions proving you are in spain from a set date. The padrón doesn't prove that just the date of issus.
Our solicitor has said we must use our bank cards as much as possible to show that we are residing in Spain. At no point has she said we need a Padron cert for the application and we will be applying at Alicante.
The padrón has been used previously as a proof of address but we will just supply a copy of our deeds, electric bill, water bill and some receipts from Suma from earlier this year.

I may be wrong but will find out from her on the 14th

Barry is your difficulty re padron that the Ayuntamiento won't sign you on the padron without you having residencia? Or is it that you don't wish to be on the padron? As you are making yourself resident, if it were me and ayuntamiento will allow you to sign on the padron before attending for the TIE, I would do that as you will be doing it immediately after getting residencia with the TIE anyway. If that helps the system go more smoothly what's to lose? I myself did ensure I never signed on the padron until I was indeed resident that was under old system. However doing my wifes residencia under new TIE rules and from information provided by extranjero office at Malaga they did say padron certificate required for part 1 of the application so rather than argue it with them and fact that my wife would have signed on the padron immediately following the issue of the TIE we got her signed on the padron prior to attending for Extranjero Office part of the new process. Just how we did it not saying what's right or wrong but certainly Málaga did say that's how they wanted it so we didn't rock the boat so to speak.

inbarcelona Sep 7th 2020 8:22 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by Notdunroamin (Post 12906611)
And yet the government issued English language description of the TIE processes for the various scenarios nowhere as much as mentions a Padron!

https://blogextranjeriaprogestion.or...BREXIT_ENG.pdf


I know, but Barcelona won´t do a TIE without a Padron certificate and it seems Malaga is the same.

bolton wanderer Sep 7th 2020 9:01 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 

Originally Posted by inbarcelona (Post 12907023)
I know, but Barcelona won´t do a TIE without a Padron certificate and it seems Malaga is the same.

.......and Alicante.


Joppa Sep 9th 2020 11:19 pm

Re: Applying for residency before EU withdrawal
 
Malaga doesn't require Padron certificate as confirmed by my gestor applying for us.


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