We are two well-travelled, almost 50 something gay men, have had enough of the UK and want to do something different with our lives. Whilst not rich, we can afford a few years without work if we have to and we will also rent out our UK house and rent somewhere else, keeping costs (in our case) neutral.

My partner has 30 years of business experience and has just completed a more than basic TEFL course. Is he likely to find regular work/employment teaching business English?

Whilst I have 30 years of office managerial work behind me, I plan to forego this and focus on holiday property management. Whilst this may appear off-key, I have a few years experience in this area too. In the right place, is there work in this area or have I missed the boat? I am thinking of holiday meet and greet type activities to private owners renting out holiday lets etc.

Again this may appear strange but the choice is not necessarily restricted to Spain, as Germany (probably Berlin) is also a possibility for this move.

I would appreciate any helpful suggestions.

Dave

As Concierge for the Spanish section of BE I would like to say hello and welcome.

BE is a very large expat website, so if you have problems finding your way around we have concierges who will try to direct you. The moderators for the Spanish forums are Mitzyboy and Fred James, moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderador who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge of the issues of living in Spain. At the top of the page you will find a quirkily named thread called Free Beer which is full of important and useful information. Hope you enjoy your time participating in the forums.

Please let me know if you need any further help.

Rosemary

Possibly a better choice.

Tens of thousands of Spanish professionals are moving to Germany for work as unemployment in Spain has now reached 23%.

Spain is about the last country in the EU that I would consider if I was looking for employment.

It's a great place to retire to but an awful place to find work.

actually Madrid is one of the better places to find work in teaching English (as mentioned in the opening post). But experience in the field, and an ability to speak Spanish, is needed if seeking Business classes.

Unfortunately everyone answering has been spot-on so far. Spain is a good place to have money. It's not a good place to make money.

For employment, you're far better off in Germany.

Try this English-speaking forum which is perhaps the most comprehensive and popular in Germany:

Toytown Germany

As others are saying - Is Spain the right place.??

There are many other countries around that are expat friendly, have an easy way of life, low cost of living. My favourite is Malaysia where English is a common language.

Yes you have to look at the negatives such as frozen pension but you have a few years of easy living in which to decide whether to accept that before you get your payouts or move elsewhere.

If that is a long term worry then you could also try Mauritius and Philippines - where you will not have to live on a frozen pension.

At the end of the day it is all about you, your partner, your lifestyle and your futures. Spain seems an easy answer but there are at times more negatives here for those under retirement age than there are positives.

hth

Thanks for your answers, which are very helpful. We are aware of the Germany vs. Spain employment issues which are significant. Equally though, there is a difference in the cost of living between the two countries and Spain is considerably cheaper. Spain also has the advantage of warm weather and, like a lot of others on here, we relish some sunshine after almost 50 years of UK rain.

We have travelled to Malaysia/Phillippines and whilst they appeal as holiday destinations, they are not places we would like to live. We are really restricting this venture to Europe.

Clearly a lot of people have taken this leap. Do you regret it? What unforeseen pitfalls did you come up against and, crucially, how did you overcome them to make it work?

We are not heading into this situation blindly and others experiences helps us enormously.

Many thanks,

Dave

Hi Rammy,

Well, apart from our common naive expectations at first, and after a few years of figuring out how to get around the pitfalls, we have no regrets.

We lived in Germany for a long time before moving to Mallorca, and we were delighted to to leave, even though there are a lot of desirable attributes to Germany (especially compared to the UK, a place we will never return to).

The underlying truth is that it will take you a few years to become accustomed to the relative insanity of the way things work, but if you can afford to live without income for a while, you have a shot at it. It can't be understated how challenging it is to become employed. Mallorca enjoys a bit better economy than most of Spain, and it's still very challenging. But if you have a background in real estate or tourism, you'll eventually end up making enough to get by, after getting to know people and establishing their trust.

By the way, it's pretty gay-friendly here, so no worries about that. Nobody really cares.

Pitfalls:
Well, aside from the sometimes insane bureacracy, here, at least, it's common practice to try to "gouge" naive foreigners (despite what others might tell you). The general attitude is not one of guilt, but rather that if you're stupid enough to allow yourself to be ripped off, it's your fault. Unlike other places in Europe, legal recourse is much more difficult in the event you are defrauded. Nobody looks forward to anything having to do with the legal system, and most people try to avoid it.

The importance of fluency in Spanish cannot be understated. If you're fluent, about 75% of "newbie foreigner" problems will simply vanish.

We've found the best approach to everything is to always cover your arse, be more knowledgeable, and generally be in a better position than anyone you must do business with. For example, know the law and your rights, so that whenever anyone tells you it's "obligatory" or "this is the best deal you'll get" you can simply shrug it off and say "no it isn't" with confidence.

Another example - When you take your car for repair, make note of everything - fuel levels, mileage, scratches, dents, etc, and have the boss sign it. This will send a message that you're probably not the best customer to mess with.

Most people will back down the moment they realise they are not going to win with the "naive foreigner" game, and will often smile and immediately offer you a better deal or price, or whatever. After that, they won't mess with you anymore.

On the subject of cars, it's a different attitude about them here (well, compared to Germany, certainly). If you have a nice new car, expect it to be scratched, dented and generally banged up in the first year here.

No, people don't do it deliberately, but in virtually any parking lot, someone will scrape or put a dent in your car while pulling in or out of a parking space. Nobody seems to care about the damage. Most will just shrug it off and leave. Most of the cars you see on the street will be scratched and dented. Better to buy an old Golf that's already scratched and dented, because frankly, few people really care what you drive anyway. It's simply impractical to have a brand new car here.

Fraud is especially prevalent in Real Estate, and I would never recommend buying within the first two years you are here (unless you can be certain about the deal, through a trusted someone well-versed in the mysterious ways here). After you figure out how things work, you can save 100K's if you are patient, look, watch, listen, and negotiate over a very long period of time.

Rents are cheap. Especially if you aren't hell-bent on living in the most expensive "hip" places with the most desirable yacht harbour - just to have a prestigious address.

The upside
Well, I reckon most things you already know: Weather, laid back lifestyle, the sea, the mountains, the food, and the wine. And yes, it's cheaper than Germany or the UK (mainly due to the horrible economy).

But one thing you might not expect is the people. The Spanish are about as decent a people as you'll ever find, and eventually you'll become most wary of the foreigners.

At the end of the day, it all makes for a pretty nice life, if you can manage to have money, and get through the ancillary crap.

We moved over permanently, to the Axarquia region of Andalucia, in late 2006 having bought a house here in 2003. We've never regretted it, but I said at the time, and all that has happened since only reinforces it, that I would not move until we were in the position that we would have sufficient means to live comfortably until our pensions became payable and not have to look for work. Hence why we waited a further 3 years after buying our house! I can't say we have come across any unforeseen pitfalls, just the normal kind of everyday annoyances you get wherever you live.

Certainly in the area where I live, there already seem to be many, many property management companies around and I am not sure how good a living any of them make. It might be OK as a way to supplement an income but I wouldn't want to rely on it as a sole means of support.

Good luck with your plans anyway!

Thank you Amideislas and Lynne

A - I don't anticipate having problems with the Spanish people. We have spent a great deal of time in Europe having semi-lived in Berlin and Budapest, and find locals in both places easy enough to deal with. Compared with some people in the UK and the total disregard they often have for everyone else, I don't foresee a particular issue.

As for housing, we plan to rent out our UK house (we live in a place with reasonable demand) and rent somewhere in Spain to keep costs at least neutral. We looked to buy in Spain a few years back but decided against it for many reasons. Incidentally it was the Brits who worked as Estate Agents that we had the most difficulty with.....trying to sell us what they wanted to sell, at highly inflated prices, rather than what we wanted to buy. So we walked away and don't have an issue with doing that. We do not need a hip place to live so think we will be fine on that front.

I appreciate your comments though on being a little demanding back and not being gullible foreigners, and I can see how this will translate to the rental market so I will bear it in mind. We have some Spanish but not enough to negotiate in.

L - Thanks also for your comments. I really need a bit of something to keep me occupiedand supplent the income and savings I already have.

I actually own a couple of apartments (not in Spain) and have struggled no end to find someone to take care of any rentals at a reasonable cost (got there in the end though!), and figure I have something to offer in this area. I'm flexible, reliable and sensible, and luckily don't need to rely on the income entirely to exist.

One area that does concern me is the cost of medical cover. I have a fully paid up NI Account in the UK but believe this allows me 2 years of medical cover for free in Spain. Afterwards, I will have to rely on private cover or register self-employed and pay €290 per month. Is that correct and are there any alternative options?

Again, thanks to both,

Dave

just remember that Spain isnt ALL sun, sea and sangria - especially the former. with the exception of the costal strips most of Spain seems to be halfway up a mountain

Even the city of Granada sits about 700metres above sea level, and coming from an area 1foot above sea level I have found it can make a difference with the weather and also the cold in winter seems to eat thru the bones at times - but that just might not be helped by housing built for warm weather but not cold.

However, the best of luck to you in whichever safe harbour you decide to drop anchor. Enjoy
kr
D

Your understanding of the position regarding medical cover is correct. Neither of us is working in Spain, self-employed or otherwise, and after our 2-year public health cover under the S1 ran out we have paid for private health insurance. We are currently paying €102 per month for the two of us (aged 62 and 55). If you start up a business, you should register as autonomo and as you said the payments are €290 per month - and that is a flat rate, it doesn't depend on how much your turnover or profit is. That could be a disadvantage if you are looking to make a relatively small amount to supplement your other income.

I did see an advertisement today for one new business in my area which I think might do quite well - a British care agency providing support services in people's own homes. As I'm not aware of another one around here, and there are quite a lot of retired people who might need some level of care, seems like a sensible idea.

Thanks for this Lynne. The flat rate monthly contribution is high and requires some thought although the monthly medical insurance seems more reasonable. Does this give you access to Doctors and routine medical problems and/or the bigger stuff should you require long-term care or an operation of sorts?

I agree that there is likely to be a market for support services as you describe, particularly as the expat population ages. An interesting thought.

Dave

the flat rate NI/autonomo IS high - not quite flat though........... mine is a bit over 250€ a month, your age & other things are taken into consideration I believe, but my 2 dds are also covered & it also pays towards a small govt. pension

the govt. IS getting wise to people running 'dummy' companies to get into the system - so unless you really ARE running a business it's not appropriate

Our private medical insurance is with Prevision Medica, a company which covers Malaga and Cordoba provinces within Andalucia. As with anything else, you need to shop around to compare prices and coverage. Our policy covers everything from routine visits to general practitioners, consultations with specialists, tests and hospital treatment. Any tests, hospital treatment or operations need to be authorised by the company before being carried out. A couple of things to bear in mind are that pre-existing conditions are either not covered by insurance companies, or if they are the premiums are increased considerably. Also, I think I am correct in saying that all companies impose a qualifying period from the time your policy is taken out until you are able to access most forms of treatment (other than emergencies and GP appointments). This varies depending on the type of treatment, with some things it can be as little as 3 months but as much as 12 months for others.