jimenato

Sorry - must have missed something. What's emf?

bil

OK, first off, mine is a hypothesis, as I haven't done it and haven't got a range of VERIFIABLE facts to back it up. Go to that reference that was posted and read it, and you will see what I mean.

If you want to test your hypothesis that the force acts on the rods, then dowse wearing a tinfoil wrap or something like that.

You cannot invalidate my hypothesis by saying 'to me it feels different.' For that you need FACTS to back you up.

You would also need to demonstrate precisely where and how the force was applied.

whitelinen

In Billspeak it is Elfs Magicians and Fairies my guess......... electro magnetic field.

cricketman

Oh dear

Teach yourself some science (or even better, go to classes), read some proper science papers, then read Dawkins books about evolutionary genetics.

Then tell me what you think!

bil

The HUGE problem is that since people who argue against Dawkins, Darwin et al tend to have a poor grasp on science, they have nothing whatsoever to compare it to.

If you have a scientific bent, then you have a huge array of background knowledge to compare a new idea to.

Each new idea is held up against what you know to be a reliable source, and you see if it fits in. If it doesn't, it is less likely to be true.

Non scientists don't usually grasp the concept of the double blind test, and the need for absolute, verifiable facts. Not feelings, instincts and so on.

HBG

I'm sorry, Bil, but Dawkins ideas are nothing special. We've had different ideas over hundreds of years and they will change over the next hundred. And if you preach a total reliance on science, what has science done for us?

We can't even cure a common cold, earthquakes and tropical storms are happening as we speak, and we might as well hug trees to help us rather than pay any attention to an atheist with a chip on his shoulder.

bricwood

when I worked on building sites in the sixties the water board used to dowse for lost pipes, it worked perfectly they used a piece of wire in the shape of a catapult, one of the foremen for the builder used to find cables same way, believe or not I know what I saw

bil

How right you are. What have the Romans ever done for us?

What you fail to grasp is this. Scientists have ideas, and they set out to see whether they are true or not. Sometimes they aren't right at all, and are thrown away. Sometimes they aren't quite right, and get knocked into shape until they are right.

But, once we have a correct idea, then it stays in place, because the truth is the truth is the truth.

What pray are these ideas that have changed? Newton's laws? Einstein's work? Darwin's? All the laws of physics that refer to all the basic stuff? Young's modulous of elasticity? Boyle's law? Do tell. Is pressure no longer proportional to volume? Doesn't three beans and three more make six any longer?

No offence old son, but that truly is a massive pile of cack that you have posted.

Can't cure a common cold? Silly boy. There is not a single cold virus, but thousands of the b*ggers, which is why you get less as you get older.

We have eliminated smallpox, and turned deadly diseases into shadows of their former selves. Our lives have been enriched over and over again, and if you are going to whine about the times that science gets it wrong, then you should strip yourself of every vestige of aid that science has given you, and go back to digging for roots and grubs with a pointed stick.

Sally Redux

Those who 'don't like science' should rely on the power of prayer in any case of illness or accident.

bil

Yeah, plus go to a faith healer for teeth.

Everyone who ever asked a question is, in one sense or another a scientist.

HBG

No offense, old son, but you're living in a perverted world that makes no sense whatsoever.

All your ridiculous theories seem to prove is a total lack of understanding, Nobody gives a **** whether you believe in God, but if you don't at least have the curtesy to explain yourself..

Dick Dasterdly

To me the closest thing to a Verifiable Fact is something I have clearly seen and experienced myself at first hand.
Scientific theories have been coming and going for thousands of years and may or may not be accurate, however we are taught to accept them as fact, until such time as the next so called "Verifiable" version comes along.

You do not seem able to grasp the basis of what I and others are describing Bil.
The force I refer to is clearly not caused by the person, but on the contrary against the person,or against that person's grip.
Indeed on occasions when taken by surprise, I have occasionally, instinctively tightened my grip on the rod to resist the force,thinking surely this cannot be happening.
Therefore its unlikely IMHO that a tinfoil suit or even a tinfoil hat would have much affect on the direct or induced force between the emf and the rod.

On the other hand if witnessed by a casual passer by, one might well be considered as suitable material for the funny farm.

bil

I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand. What precisely are you trying to say here?

bil

I think you are missing the point. Did you not read that page which was posted?

Either there is a force or there isn't.
If there is a force then how does it work?
Either the force acts on the rods, or on the grip, or on somewhere that controls stance, for example the nerve junction with the spine.

What I find so amazing here is this. You and others decry science because science doesn't get it 100% right every time. Remember, science uses stuff like double blind tests, over and over again to try and eliminate error so that they can come up with verifiable facts.

You, on the other hand blithly announce to the world that whatever you feel is a verifiable fact. This is ridiculous.

As for the jibe about a tinfoil suit. If the force is real, then it is caused by something. One of the first steps to working out what a force is, is to see what stops it. Foil, or a faraday cage stops a lot of electromagnetic radiation and it would be interesting to see if that had an effect.

There is of course an intriguing possibility. If dowsing is real, and if no-one has claimed the prize, then we must ask why. I'm saddened that you haven't thought to do that, but there you go.

One problem with asking a question is that it has to be done right, or you will get the wrong answer, or no answer at all.

It may well be that the tests are unsuitable to demonstrate dowsing. For example, maybe dowsers are overconfident of their abilities, and are unable to detect small masses of water as they think, so the water bottle test may not be suitable. Maybe the water needs to be a certain mass or even depth. Who knows?

All I know is that if dowsing is real, then science will be able, eventually to tell how it works. Remember, a scientist is one who asks questions, so that applies to all but those without the wit to wonder.

So bearing that in mind, will the idiots who tell us that science is so inadequate please answer me this?

If not from science, then where the hell will we get the answers to life's questions? Will the pink fairy wot lives in the sky come down in a chariot drawn by 42 winged hamsters to tell us the meaning of life, the universe and everything?

Dick Dasterdly

Yes I read the posting and my first reaction is that it is very trashy,devoid of proven facts, written by ppl.with a vested interest in selling such garbage and that it is probably not worth the paper on which it was published, however if you have six dollars to spare I am sure they are waiting to hear from you.

I do not decry science or scientific progress, but merely point out that there are many things which science still cannot explain, in addition to many other theories published over the years as factual, which later turned out to be a load of old cobblers.

Once again in reply to your theory,I merely point out that anyone who has successfully dowsed will probably testify that the movement of the rod in the hand goes very much AGAINST the bodies or hands reaction rather than with it or because of it.

Regarding your tin-foil experiment, my faraday shield suggestion was not really meant to be taken seriously, for the simple reason that the shield in itself would quite likely make such an experiment totally invalid by attracting and absorbing any small amounts of radiation present.

However you could try this one next time you are out orienteering or lost in a forest.
Subject to you not being loaded down with gold rings or other precious metals, check the reading on your handheld compass.
Now place the compass on a non metallic object at a distance and check the reading through your binoculars.
Same reading maybe ?