steviedeluxe

Surely they'd have far better job prospects if they were brought up bi-lingual (hint - both countries are in the EU). In fact, if they could learn German as well they'd have even more of an advantage. The essential thing (and I speak as a non-graduate) is to get a degree. It's getting so you can't apply for a cleaning job without a degree - ok so that's a joke, but it's not so far off. Unless the OP are sure they can find the annual 9k tuition fees for their children (or push their kids into large debts early in life) I really don't see how the UK would be best? I stress again, both countries are in the EU so getting a job will not necessarily mean where your parents live.

JLFS

I presume that you are NOT a parent, otherwise you would not be talking the way you are.

Depending on the age of the children coming to Spain, do you really think that with a couple of years in Spanish school especially as a lot have to start from scratch, they would reach the standard to go to uni and learn another 2 languages as you suggest?

And do you think that everyone has the ability to go to uni, or indeed wants to go?

Also you seem to forget that not every child want to leave home to find a job, in the same way that not everyone want to live in a different country to where they were born.

It would break my heart if a child of mine had to live in a different country to the one I had brought him/her to, just to be able to have a job, when their real wish would be to have one locally and stay near their parents

Also, parents do not have to find the 9k a year uni fee, I think we have been over this before, it is paid back by the graduate when they get a job earning over x amount of wages. So the uni fee argument does not hold water.

steviedeluxe

Well of course I disagree with most of the previous post, but just have time to answer these two

Well exactly - the money HAS to be paid. 9k per student per year, so 27k debts. Some parents will try their best to pay in advance so their child doesn't start out with such huge debts. In fact, students from the UK are starting to look abroad because of this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...europe-no-debt

So in the end, your offspring may have to move away to study and/or work anyway, regardless of whether the parental home is in Spain or the UK

No, but unfortunately jobs are getting harder and harder to come by for kids starting out. Even in the UK the unemployment rate for young people is 20% (and higher still in Spain). Even getting a degree is no guarantee of a job, but nowadays it's getting almost essential if you have a chance of a good job. I don't think it's a good thing by the way, but there you go.

Rosemary

The children are 2 years old and 11 months old so surely they would have the same chances with education as a child born in Spain.

In a previous post you mention about how important it is for the parents to learn Spanish in order to help their children and I totally agree with you. Children having to translate is not fair on the child, they are given too much responsibility when they should have the adults in their lives taking the responsibility. Also a parent needs to be able to deal with anything that life throws at them.

You know first hand how difficult it is for children moving to another country so what age do you feel is ideal?

Rosemary

marqueemoon

An interesting article from The Guardian on graduates from Spanish universities.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...uates-emigrate

marqueemoon

I am sure this is true, and perhaps they would have a better chance than most Spanish kids because the OP said they could go private and buy an advantage. In this scenario, with two very young children, it could be the parent that has to live here that ends up isolated and homesick.

JLFS

If as you say that parents try in to pay in advance the 27k upfront, well that is their chioce, as is buying them a flat to live in while they are studying, but it is not necessary or even the norm. Because if the parents had to stump up 27k up front, there would not be load of graduates on the dole, because they would never have even got to uni, and a lot less mickey mouse degrees.

So if that is the case what you mean is that people from the UK or Spain would have to move to another EU contry and to find a job and people from other EU countries will also have to leave their homes to find a good job, some supposedly in the UK or Spain? (confused).

So with your post, I am reading it that those looking for a job will have to re locate to a different place, but then others will have to relocate to the country where the other job seekers have left. Hmmm?

JLFS

Well I for one would not want to be resposible for 2 children so young, if I could not depend on my language skills in a crisis.......

but it is down to parental choice, I know a lot do it, but i wouldnt even consider it. I would head for an English speaking country.

steviedeluxe

Well yes, exactly. It's not just Poles who have to move abroad to find work. Starting to happen in the UK too:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...o-find-work.do

Don't assume that where you decide to live (whether it be Spain or the UK or even Germany in the future) is where your kids will end up working. Globalisation is getting more intense. Overall I think this is a bad thing, but it does create opportunties for some.

JLFS

You have made a very good point, and there are lots of things to consider.

I would say the younger the better, in terms of eductaion, and the child settling in.

But the downside is, if the parents cannot speak the language, the younger the child or children are, the bigger the potential danger to the child.

So evenif living in a British-ish area, I would say if the parent cannot make themselves understood in a crisis situation, then the timing is not right.

Rosemary

You have hit the nail on the head with the fact that the parents need to take full responsibility for their children and that means being able to deal with any crisis that occurs and be able to communicate with people. So many parents do not think things through sufficiently and then wonder why things go wrong for them and their family.

Rosemary

marqueemoon

It's not just crisis situations, but social ones too. Look at the stick some immigrants in the UK get from some people because they cannot speak good English. I am sure many of them would like to, but it is just as difficult for them to learn English from within their communities as it is for many English in their closed world to learn Spanish, as hard as they try. A language in common is unifying, but a lack of it causes a withdrawl, and if you have kids then they will experience one or the other too.

JLFS

Contrary to what is being said, most children want to stay in the area they grow up in and find a job locally.

For everyone that finds a job abroad there will be a thousand that work in the nearest town centre to where they live.

Not every kid wants to go it alone in every aspect of life. I would bet that most would rather earn less and still be able to have a social life with their mates that they grew up with and have their family close by, rather than have thier whole life revolve around a job.

Ok the gifted high fliers might disagree, but they are not "most kids".

Some forget that a job is not a persons whole life, it is a way of earning a living, no more, no less, for some it is not the be all and end all.

JLFS

Exactly, the ultimate responsibility for a childs wellbeing is with the parents, not Paco and Charo, the neighbours who speak good English!!!!

I became a father at, what seems like now a shockingly young age, earlier than intended, to be honest, but, it happens.

My dad said to me that I had to get my act together because soon, I would hold the life of helpless human being in my hands, both of us would.

I never gave it much thought at the time, but as soon as I became a parent, at, it hit me like a canonball,and was terryfieing, but wonderfull.

Fromthat moment on the speeding in the car stopped, the getting rat arsed too, and the quite risky pranks, I was a father.

Our children were brought up speaking Spanish as was my wife, but we waited until they were independant before we made the move to Spain.

By the time we wer in a financial position to do so, they were a bit older and had their own friends, plans for the future and way of life, so we waited, untill they were ready to leave us.

As it turned out my parents move to another country turned out well, but then it was out of necessity, and it was to a place with better job prospects for all the family, which often is not the case when folks move to Spain.

jackytoo

Wow some really sensible posts especially from JFLS and M/moon

In 15 years in Spain I have seen lot of families move to Spain with kids. The parents always say their kids are doing fine at school but I could count on one hand the ones who have left school with any qualifications. Even the ones who did went to private international schools. Your children may be fluent but it will take years to get to any stage where you can dicuss or help with school work, have a conversation with the Teacher etc. I have seen many posts on forums asking when are the school holidays and it seems as mot British parents are in a mist.

A friend has been married to a Spaniard for 25 years.(really fully bi-lingual). When her first child was about 9 she went to school for an event. Because of her accent and a tiny mistake she made the kids started bullying her Daughter.

Schools, hospitals etc. should be first priorities.