Originally Posted by Lou71

EU nationals don't need to take residency if they are taking a six month holiday and travelling as tourists. It would be quite ridiculous for someone who regularly spends six months every year in an EU state (which thousands upon thousands of EU nationals do) to keep chopping and changing their residency status. Schengen rules trump residency rules and the whole idea of EES is to catch third country overstayers and make the internal Schengen borders as easy, frictionless and invisible as possible for EU nationals.

Originally Posted by DLC

In all of my replies, I've written it with the understanding that the EU citizen is the OP as he will be travelling on his EU passport and the non-EU citizen is his wife.

The EU citizen 90-day rule is 90 day per visit. To visit Portugal for more than 90 days and follow the letter of the law, they can legitimately fly in to Portugal, stay for a while, go on a day trip to Spain, return to Portugal, and the EU citizen 90-day clock is reset to 0.

Would a border guard want to see proof? Receipts, newspapers, photo of his wife standing in front of the blue "España" sign on the border? Who knows... not that two wrongs make a right but they didn't really get bothered with British "swallows" spending the winter in Spain.

Originally Posted by Rooftile

Thanks all for your inputs. Most informative and very clear now on the process. One Q with the EES, if anyone knows.

My wife UK 3rd country accompanies me, EU citizen into Portugal or Spain…doesn’t matter. We bypass the EES and both proceed to the manual Border Control. My wife’s passport is stamped. All’s well. She then goes back to the UK on her own a week later and has to now pass through the EES. The EES system doesn’t have a corresponding entry logged in its own database as her entry a week earlier was done manually?

Does the EES effectively ignore the lack of entry record? Surely it has to know it to calculate overstayers? Or is the manual scan and ESS scan linked somehow so the entry and exit are instantly synchronised? If they are then how is the EES exit date reconciled as she was entered under FOM rules?

Originally Posted by Rooftile

Appreciate your response but my wife returns after I week ! No question of overstaying in theory or practice. My query is how does the EES resolve a FOM manual border check on arrival.

Originally Posted by Barriej

Nope.... Because in Spanish law (not the EU) staying longer than 90 days forces you to register as a legal resident of Spain...

Its stated quite clearly here.
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/spa...m%20in%20Spain.


You (as an EU country holding citizen) and you wife can stay for more than 90 days BUT you will have to then become a Spanish resident and your partner can then apply for a visa to stay with you...
There has never been a ruling, law etc that says you can stay as long as you like if you have an EU country passport. Its 90 days no matter what passport you hold..
You are technically here illegally by overstaying even if you have an EU country passport..

The fact that many do and shed loads of Brits did before B day doesn't matter.
The law states you must apply for residency once the 90 days is up, the fact of no hard borders makes it hard to Police but that just shows how stupid the law is..

This is something that gets my goat, we have French, Dutch and German couples in the village who have been here for years, are non residents and have no desire to be (usually because its better financially for them) and they think the FOM act allows them to just move country and stay without consequence for however long they wish.
When I point out that its wrong all I get is the 'shouldn't have voted for Brexit then' comment...

Anyway the law here is rubbish, you wont even get questioned (I know this for a fact as I personally know a UK couple with UK passports who stayed for 170 days, went back to the UK for the NLV appointment, came back here two days later and on the 1st July travelled back to get the Visa in their passports and then back here yesterday.) Nothing was mentioned as they left Alicante, at the Consulate, or on their return.... There are others I know of as well....
Until the ETIAS thing starts, its all down to the border guard on the day and they dont care. My son was here a couple of weeks ago and his passport was not stamped when arriving (nor were any of the others in the huge queue) nor when he left to go back to the UK...he did ask but was just waved through....

Rant over the above is my 2c. I wouldn't overstay but what you do is your bit of string...
Remember once people start ignoring the little rules, after a while the bigger ones become easier to break.

Originally Posted by Thairetired2016

Rules may differ to Spain: I hold a German p.port & I can move to other EU countries for longer than 90 days without applying for residency. Have done this many times. Some countries require you register where you live (address) but no further requirement unless you want to work or get benefits. Once I exceed 180 days I become liable for tax.

Originally Posted by Thairetired2016

Rules may differ to Spain: I hold a German p.port & I can move to other EU countries for longer than 90 days without applying for residency. Have done this many times. Some countries require you register where you live (address) but no further requirement unless you want to work or get benefits. Once I exceed 180 days I become liable for tax.

Originally Posted by Thairetired2016

Rules may differ to Spain: I hold a German p.port & I can move to other EU countries for longer than 90 days without applying for residency. Have done this many times. Some countries require you register where you live (address) but no further requirement unless you want to work or get benefits. Once I exceed 180 days I become liable for tax.

Originally Posted by Lou71

I agree with you but I doubt anyone else on here will.

Nobody is expected to become resident in Spain if they are a tourist on a six month holiday - any longer than 180 days means you are automatically tax resident.

There is some vague rule about EU nationals needing to register their presence after 90 days in Spain (signing on the padron perhaps?) and Portugal but I don't know anyone who has registered (as what? A tourist?) and I have never seen the form that EU nationals are supposed to complete when they register as tourists after 90 days.

Taking residency is a different matter entirely and nobody in their right mind is going to start the procedure to become resident in Spain when they are leaving in three months' time, it's completely bonkers.

Originally Posted by Thairetired2016

Rules may differ to Spain: I hold a German p.port & I can move to other EU countries for longer than 90 days without applying for residency. Have done this many times. Some countries require you register where you live (address) but no further requirement unless you want to work or get benefits. Once I exceed 180 days I become liable for tax.

Originally Posted by Lou71

I agree with you but I doubt anyone else on here will.

Nobody is expected to become resident in Spain if they are a tourist on a six month holiday - any longer than 180 days means you are automatically tax resident.

There is some vague rule about EU nationals needing to register their presence after 90 days in Spain (signing on the padron perhaps?) and Portugal but I don't know anyone who has registered (as what? A tourist?) and I have never seen the form that EU nationals are supposed to complete when they register as tourists after 90 days.

Taking residency is a different matter entirely and nobody in their right mind is going to start the procedure to become resident in Spain when they are leaving in three months' time, it's completely bonkers.

Originally Posted by Barriej

Nope the FOM act states that you as an EU country citizen can freely move around the countries in the zone. BUT you must obey the local rules about residency.
Germany the country you hail from has this in its laws.​​​​
Residence for EU citizens in Germany can be taken up through The European Union freedom of movement rules, which allow EU citizens to work, study or do training in Germany without a VISA or residence permit. With just a valid national ID card or passport, you can stay in Germany up to three (3) months. This also applies to your family.

If you are planning to stay in Germany for longer than three months, you would need to provide proof that you are able to cover living expenses for you and your dependents. The same rights apply to EFTA countries - Switzerland, Iceland, Norway and Liechtenstein.

Link to the text here if you wont believe it.
https://www.welcome-center-germany.c...20(3)%20months.


Spain has in law that anyone wishing to or staying longer than 90 days (even if German etc) must register as a resident...(in fact the UK was the ONLY EU country who allowed and still does allow 180 days) due to some rules it made donkeys ago with the Commonwealth countries....
The fact that most dont and its impossible to check doesnt matter. THE LAW IS CLEAR...

You and my French neighbours and all the Brits that were here before Bday were in essence breaking the law, again just because its not enforced dont make it right.
And in case the above aint clear.
Here it is in monochrome from the official European Union website.

​​​​​​https://commission.europa.eu/strateg...d-residence_en

The right to free movement

All EU citizens and their family members have the right to move and reside freely within the EU. This fundamental right is established by Article 21 of the Treaty on the functioning of the European Union and Article 45 of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights.

The conditions for the exercise of the right of free movement and residence within the territory of the Member States by EU citizens and their family members are set out in the Free Movement Directive 2004/38/EC:

• EU citizens can live in another EU country for up to three months without any requirements other than holding a valid identity card or passport.
• In order to stay in another EU country for more than three months, EU citizens have to meet certain conditions depending on their status (for example worker, self-employed, student, etc.) and may be asked to comply with administrative formalities.

Not my 2c this time but the law as set down by your EU overloads....

Originally Posted by NataHH

Yes Lou the whole thing is farcical. Bureaucracy at its finest. Because of possible tax liability I can understand the 183 day rule but to me it makes no sense whether you stay 5 months in one EU country or stay 3 months in Portugal, 3 months in Spain and/or 3 months in France I am really trying hard to understand the reason. What do longstay motorhome tourists do?

Originally Posted by Barriej

Not a vague rule but an iron clad one, see my post above.....
You as an Eu citizen allowed your countries representative to vote it into EU law.....

You (and others) could at least familiarise yourself with the FOM rules etc.
One day there may be questions to answer......