Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Hi

Is 75000 euros enough for a studio apartment and a cafebar lease in Spain? I found out you can't get a mortgage very easily in spain and if I sell my UK house, my share will be 75000 euros.
The thing is I need a leasehold business as well as a studio apartment as I need an income. You can't just sign on the dole in SPain like you can in the UK if you have no job. WHat can I do to make the move?

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

The cheapest studio apartment currently advertised for sale in my area (5km inland from the coast, East of Malaga, is priced at €115,000, and don't forget you would need to find 10% of the purchase price on top of that to pay the transfer tax, legal and notary fees (more like 12% in some areas). I think (sorry to say it) that property prices in areas within your budget would be in areas where a cafebar would attract very little trade.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Well can I get a mortgage then if I leave my job and move to spain with the intention of running a cafebar? I was told the banks there don't lend for cafebars so I would have to have cash. If I have 75000 euros cash, surely some bank will equal it so I have 150 000 euros. You also can not liquidte your asset (apartment) in spain I was told to raise cash once you buy one. This was told to me by a mortgage broker who deals with Spain.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

This is all a bit vague.
Ask yourself these questions.

1.Do you know what is involved with opening and running a Cafe?
2. Do you know enough Spanish to go through the paperwork required to open said Cafe? (its a lot harder here than in the Uk)
3. So you have 75k, to buy a flat a business and wwhat will you live on?
4. Have you done a business plan to present to any lender?
5. Ask this question, if you worked in a bank and someone came in off the street and asked what you have. Would you lend them money?

Sorry to be harsh, but my wife and son ran a cafe in the UK for years. I was self-employed there and do some work here.
The systems are totally different here from the UK, for NI contributions in the UK for a self-employed person are a pittance; here you pay even if you don't earn a cent.
Taxes are higher here than in the UK. Licences here take ages (for example, a neighbour of ours purchased a unit in the local town to open an office for his business. He has been waiting 18 months for the licence (and he is Spanish).
Food and drink are even tougher; you have more health requirements to abide by, drink licences, etc. (We were going to do a cafe when we moved over, and the paperwork and cash required were silly).

To even think about answering the question, we would need to know the location you wanted to move to.
Do you even have the right to come to Spain and live and work?

The cafe near us closed as the owner tried to double the rent.
The people in there now paid €60,000 just for the lease and pay €1,500 a month in rent. They are open seven days a week and speak really good Spanish, so they have a good customer base.

Give some more info and then you might get a answer (maybe not one you want, but it will still be honest).

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

OP; I noticed that your questions on this forum are on both Riyadh and Spain, which seems a bit unusual given the different counties involved. To help clarify and provide relevant advice, I wanted to ask: do you hold an EU passport that would allow you to live and work in Spain?

Understanding your status in terms of residency or citizenship can make a significant difference when we answer your questions about living and working in Spain. Where in Spain are you wanting to move?

Please feel free to share more details so that we can offer a more "tailored" guidance.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Hi there.

Yes, I have dual nationality (British and Latvian) so I can go and live/work in any EU country.
1. I would be a beginner running a cafebar.I would have to learn how to cook the different meals for example.
2. I don't know any SPanish except Hola. I did french and German at school but not Spanish. However, I am quick at picking up languages.
3.I would live on the income generated by the leasehold cafebar. This is what I would hope to achieve anyway.
4.I haven't done any business plan yet because I am just thinking about things and I would have a house to sell in the UK first to get the capital to buy a flat and leasehold cafebar.
I have seen cafebars listed on some websites for around 20 000 euros leasehold. I don't know how good that means they are but this is the price I have seen in Malaga and Torremolinos for example.
I didn't know you have to get a licence to open a cafebar in Spain. Seems like a scam to me to make money by the government. How much does it cost to get a licence then?
I don't mind which area of spain but I have seen cafebars for sale in Torremolinos for 20k euros. I also like Valencia and Benidorm. Hope this helps. Yes, I have some questions on another thread about Riyadh because I am just about to start a job there for 12 months teaching English.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

How does this work? They're renting the premises for 1.5k/mth but what is the 60k about?

As for the OP this is a tough ask and it just seems like that money will dissipate very quickly. Without a profitable business (and no financial buffer to give you time to get in the black) it's basically asking for trouble.

Also, as others have mentioned above, on what basis are you planning on moving to Spain now that after brexit a UK passport is not an EU-one and you have no right to live in Spain just because you want/intend to?

EDIT: sorry, didn't see your post before mine. A Latvian passport will do.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

How much would that pay? I assume it would be tax-free too? :)

This might be a good way to build up a bigger budget before a move to Spain.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Many of these Cafe bars are for sale at a reasonable price simply because the current owners want to get rid, I lived in Spain pre Brexit for a few years and where we were, in an area that, at that time was very touristy, were changing hands every winter or even more often, it was very difficult for many of them to make a living because there were so many around, it may well be even worse now as in many of the areas that were tourist magnets Spanish people are actively trying to curb the numbers due, in the main, to the drunken behaviour of the visitors. If you are seriously looking then you must ensure you see their books, and have them looked at be an accountant.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Hi Atera. Not as much as you might think. 13000SAR per month which equates to about £2600 per month. After renting a room/studio apartment in Riyadh and travel to work, I will be left with just £2000 per month.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Oh I see! Yes, well that's what I thought too really, ie that there are a lot of cafebars all cramped in the same area that competition is difficult. Say, what do all you guys posting on my thread actually do in Spain yourselves then? Looks like I will have to just go to Riyadh then at the moment and do a 7:30 till 16:00 teaching job at the technical college. I am flying in 2 weeks and the employer has already bought me m y ticket.

But I would really like to run my own business in Spain and generate an income sometime. Running an English school would cost a lot I think.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

That seems ludicrously low for the ME? You wouldn't be able to save much (if anything) on that I'd assume, if you're a teacher I'd hold out for a better job there so you can save a lot more money.

Plus if you're only going for a year, you'd presumably have to pay UK tax on at least some of that money too.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

It's the going rate I am afraid for an ESL teacher. Even teachers at international schools only get around 15000-20 000 SAR which is £3000-£4000 per month so not a great deal more.
I think I will still go though because I intend to work on the side doing private teaching gigs and maybe earn double my salary. The ticket has already been sent to me so I would feel awful letting them down. Unless they can cancel the ticket and get their money back. I don't know. I won't be paying any UK income tax! I should be able to save around £1000 a month if I am careful/frugal.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Ah, I see, I thought you were a 'normal' teacher.

You're not currently resident in the UK?

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

I used to be a 'normal' Music teacher but now I am an ESL teacher LOL.
I am currently resident in the UK so yes, I have been paying tax but as soon as I go out to the ME, if I do, then I will let HMRC know and won't pay UK tax. BTW, as mentioned, 'normal' international teachers in Saudi get around £3000-£4000 per month I think although some may get more I don't know. I will be on £2600 so they aren't on a great deal more 'normal; teachers aren't. LOL

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

People on here are dissing my job offer in the ME as ludicrously low (£2600 tax free). How much do you earn after tax in Spain then? he he I am curious what jobs people do in Spain except teaching and running a cafebar.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Have you checked that with a tax professional? If you're only working overseas for a year (which straddles two tax years) you may find that's not the case, see this post as an example - https://britishexpats.com/forum/midd.../#post12990477 If you're thinking of going to Spain after your year in SA, do check the tax rules there as well just in case.

Most on the forum are retired I think, and will be living off pensions. FWIW, I meant it was ludicrously low in context for the ME, not in comparison to other countries. Most people going to the ME will earn a lot more than their UK salaries.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Many of us are retired and bought our properties as cas buyers when we moved here. Speaking personally, I bought a small house and used it as a holiday home for a few years until I was sure that I could sell my Uk house, give up my job and have enough money to live on for 10 years until I started to receive my pensions. I would never have wanted to try to earn a living in Spain as salaries were and still are very low and working hours not attractive to me. I hear a lot of things from Spanish people about abusive employment practices such as employers not paying on time, not paying for all the hours worked or paying some wages in cash under the table to avoid paying the full amount of social security contributions which of course affects employees future pension entitlement.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

I must say I am surprised as I didn't figure people from Europe would be going to that entire region in general for under 100k EUR (high 80's in GBP) per year. But that's obviously an out-of-date outlook if those figures are way off...

In Spain people come from all walks of life - many come with the hope of setting up a B&B and/or pub, some are professionals who want a change in lifestyle but want to continue plying their trade (plumbers, electricians, etc.), others are retired and some live from passive income.

Wages in Spain are quite low and they really stay almost flat for many jobs, in that they don't spike up for accountants or junior legal professionals for instance. You really have to get up there for those wages to shoot up, or own a successful business of your own. But overall this isn't a place you would normally choose to come to for wages/money alone.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

You buy the 'lease' for 10 years or whatever, exactly the same as in the UK or anywhere else, I would assume. And then there is rental payment.
We paid £25,000 for the lease on the cafe in Shoreham and paid £700 a month for the rental.
If you buy an existing business, then you are also paying for the 'goodwill' and the contents.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Oil workers and engineers and corporate people might get £80k a year in the ME but not teachers, especially ESL teachers unless you work for Aramco or BAE Systems.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Thank you for getting back to us and providing further clarification.
Regarding the necessary licenses and permissions, you will indeed require more than one license to operate legally. You can find this a useful guide. https://hostelmarkt.com/actualidad-h...r-y-cafeteria/
This should help clarify the requirement(s). However, I do not know if it covers all aspects and you should seek advice before signing any agreement..

Additionally, there are other important considerations. One of these is obtaining a Manipulador de Alimentos (Food Handler Certificate), which is mandatory for anyone involved in food preparation and handling. All bars have food in Spain.

Moreover, please keep in mind that running a bar as a sole operator is impossible. You will need to ensure the appropriate staffing.That brings in other requirements to ensure you working within the law.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

OK folks so a cafebar then seems to be a bit more complicated than just opening up as you have to gain certificates to deal with food so if I were to move to Spain, perhaps I could buy a mini supermarket then instead.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

I wouldn't bother looking in the Benidorm area as there are thousands upon thousands of mini supermarkets!!

Steve

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

All I know is that nothing is cheap anymore and everything in Spain requires permits that cost money. Any flats that are cheap will either be illegally occupied or extremely bad standard, or tiny.

Example here:
https://www.idealista.com/en/inmueble/107265632/

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

There are ok cheap flats in my price range I think but not in towns or cities. They are quite far away or in unpopular cities. Same for Italy. You can buy flats under 100k eur even houses but they are not in desirable locations.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Right, I thought it would have been more across the board in order to entice people to accept job offers in that part of the world.

Have you looked at other countries? Switzerland seems to pay very well, to the point where a single person can easily afford rent and still save up for something.

Sorry, this is still new to me. The only time I dealt with business properties was outside the UK and the basis was very similar to residential units. You signed a contract for a fixed monthly amount and that was it.

Why are you paying for a 10-year lease... and then every month as well? Are the funds going to the same person? Or are these the so-called "business rates" that go to the council so basically a form of tax (akin to "council tax" on homes?), and then only the monthly rent goes to the actual owner?

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

No, it is confusing if you have never done it before, but its very common in many countries.
So first off you either decide to 'buy' and existing business or you take out a 'lease' on commercial property. Both of these almost always attract what is known as a 'premium'.
You are paying a sum of money for a 'lease' that allows you to enjoy the space, or in the case of an existing business, you are buying the current tenant out of their contract and paying 'goodwill, the stock, fittings etc' for a specified time. Whatever term was left on the lease you purchased with the business or whatever term you agree with the freeholder (1 year, 5 years, or 10 years), this is one payment.
You then enter into a contract to pay 'rent' on the property you will be running your business from, and the cost of insurance (if it's not already added to the rent) as well as picking up the cost of power, light, rubbish collections, etc.

The OP, from the sounds of it, has not done one iota of research, as they would fail even in the UK. How they would cope here with all the lovely paperwork and bureaucracy we have would be a wonder.

And €75,000 will not even scratch the surface.

My wife owned and ran a couple of businesses: a gift shop in a busy shopping arcade and then a cafe with our son in Shoreham-by-Sea. i owned and ran a Jewellers shop, small warehouse and a workshop and the words of a good friend who owns three bars around here (two in Benidorm).

If you want to make or end up with a small fortune in retail. You better start with a very large one.
The only people who make any money will be the freeholder of the building.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

As there are many cafebars in Spain, presumably people do make a good living at it. Not everyone perhaps, but there are many cafebars. anyway, I only asked the question, I am not actually buying anywhere yet. As you say 75000 won't even scratch the surface. But some people must be making a good living out of running them in Spain otherwise no one would buy them.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

I haven't looked at Switzerland as I thought it was too expensive to live there. Also, I have never seen any ESL jobs going in Switzerland. I will have a look though. I did try Germany but there were so many applications. I think one school there attracted 460 applicants so I was told and they hired internally in the end. ANy job nowadays worth going for will ultimately attract a lot of applicants. I think Spain gets lots of applicants from young teachers who want to live the lifestyle there but the salaries are low. (like 25000 euros a year maybe 30k euros)

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

All the 'school' jobs in my area are for 'Native speakers of English'.
Do you fall into that category?
And the schools are all the private ones, and from memory we have a few people on here that have done that job, and it don't pay €25,000 a year, from what I recall. Somewhat less, the average wage is around €1,200 a month

There you go, this is from the local website.
​​​​​​The average wage for an ESL English teacher on the Costa Blanca (Alicante region) in 2026 typically ranges between €1,000 and €1,500 per month for full-time academy contracts, with hourly rates usually falling between €11 and €17 per hour

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

NOPE, most of the bars HAVE to be open some 16 hours a day, seven days a week, from early April to mid-October, and I would seriously doubt they make much money.
That's why bars are opening and closing daily in and around Benidorm and the other popular places.
Just because there are many doesn't mean they are all making money.
Most are at best covering costs and allowing the owners to exist.
You really need to do some research and not just think like most people that it can't be hard, as everyone seems to be doing it.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

I was talking about International schools in Spain where you have to be a qualified teacher with a PGCE. These jobs pay around 25000 I believe. You are correct that ESL jobs in Spain are 1200 euros per month.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Right, so if you are looking at a new property with no business currently operating in it then you still have to pay the owner ("freeholder") both a multi-year lease as well as monthly rental fees? Plus associated costs of course (utilities, insurance, etc.).

Yeah, that's what it feels like. Especially nowadays when retain in general is in decline and most storefronts seem to be vape stores or barber shops.

Have you looked at sherpa-online.com by any chance? People are earning quite good money offering online lessons in their free time, with some even doing it on a full time basis. You could even look at music as you have past experience/credentials to back this up.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

The number of bars in the large town I live in (not a holiday resort) is far smaller than it was when we arrived 20 years ago, and many of the premises they occupied have remained empty since they closed. Others start up, remain in business for maybe a year or two then close, and eventually the process is repeated with new owners. One such has had six new lots of people trying to make a go of it that we know of.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Oh I see. Thanks for the info. I think I won't try in that case anymore now then.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

I agree with much of what you say. however I do quibble with the idea that paperwork and bureaucracy is somehow on a different scale in Spain which I feel is an urban myth. Hire a decent gestor (the same way you'd hire an accountant in Blighty) and if anything paperwork is far less cumbersome than in the UK which can be complicated once you start talking about UC/tax credits if business is struggling. The other side of the coin however is that help/relief can be more generous in the UK, see covid relief and/or business rates exemptions for smaller retail businesses.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

I like the word 'quibble'
So our neighbour, who has run a business in this area for twenty years and has local government contracts, decided he wanted to open a retail office and small showroom.
He purchased outright (freehold) a unit in the area, spent many thousands of euros on refitting it (using local trade) and then went to see the town hall about the permits to open.
Eighteen months later and no answer as to why he still can't have a licence. He still has had to pay the IBI, etc., on the shop.
And he is Spanish, and his wife, while British, came here when she was 2. They speak perfect Spanish, and even they despair over the way things happen here.

His comment was that Spain is now trying way too hard to shake off the shackles of previously being corrupt, and so they have done the only thing possible and have decided that everyone must be crooked now because it's easier to start that way.

All that waiting is just for paperwork. I and many others will attest to the fact that beaurocracy here is a joke. There may be a law, a rule and a set of guidelines. But even today it still comes down to what mood the functionary is in when you hand over the paperwork, even if you use a gestor (which we do, and she speaks very little English).

I have issues where it's costing me three or four times the actual tax on my inheritance from my father in the UK because the tax office here doesn't believe the figures we gave.
Even though they are on an apostilled document from the UK, which was translated and notorised here.
And while I wait for them to make a decision, they have the nerve to charge me fines for not getting the paperwork in on time.
Explain that?

At least in the UK it's in B&W, and it's your fault if you haven't crossed the T and dotted the I.

Don't get me wrong, I like it here (for now), and life is better than it was in the UK, but it ain't all perfect like lots of people say.
We have had a couple of instances lately that have taken the shine off this country for us.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Having ran a Casa Rural totally disagree with you.
The house was purchased as a ruin and then renovated (rebuilt ) to be a business by a Spanish couple. They left us the paperwork to prove the licences and permissions they had to obtain. There are in short form and not in order other than how I can remember them.

• Undertake a project with an architect submitted plans and descriptions. The building design has to fit what is set out by local tourism laws.
• Obtain permission from Tourism from the Xunta de Galicia.
• Obtain permissions from the Ayuntamiento
• Obtain permissions from the local neighbours ( Cannot remember how many), including he Bishop of the diocese because we are located near a church.
• Obtain licences for drink water well, propane gas tank and septic tank. Plus a one that allows us to make noise.
• Get all the work inspected and submitted receipts for the building work.
• Start a company(SL)
• Be inspected for health and safety at work plus another one for the guests. These regular basis and can happen at any time.
• Also had to personally gain two certificates one for Manipulador de Alimentos and risco laboral.

This is a summery. The above may seem easy but having read through all the paperwork I can assure you that it is far from simple. It took two years to get the project off the ground before renovations could begin.
I am just glad I never purchased a ruin to turn into a casa rural.

Re: Is 75000 eur enough for a flat and leasehold cafe
 

Ah, I was talking about urban retail shops/cafes and other small businesses, as I and friends have been involved in those areas. I can well believe the rural restrictions are a lot more troublesome. Even back in the UK, as anyone who's watched Clarkson's Farm can testify. Scary to see plans totally rejected by councils for what can only be vested interests.