Chiclanagir

Very true Bil. However nothing is still being done to stop houses appearing. There is one very large one in our road which has been going up for the last 18 months or so and another one which looks like it will be two storey appearing at this moment on the Drover´s road which is supposed to be protected. In fact a large shed was built nearby which has now been turned into a celebration room an English person lives literally behind this monstrosity and has complained to the Town Hall about it and they didn´t want to know.

HBG

I bought my 30 –year old house totally legally, as far as I knew, 11 years ago, from a reputable local Spanish owner. I did worry about the large sum of cash (black money) I had to pay, but everyone concerned told me that’s how it was done.

I’ve lived here happily for 11 years and have never had a problem with the authorities. The same abogado still operates here, the same builder who had done various extensions still operates and has done further extensions for me, the company that built the swimming pool prior to my purchase has done some repair work for me since, and I still occasionally bump into the previous owner who is a prominent local businessman and politician.

This year I started thinking about selling up and got all my papers together and looked at them properly for the first time. I found some major problems and went back to the previous owner, abogado and all the others who all assured me that everything is in order and the same abogado offered to act for me in the selling process.

If I sell, I will be selling a property that is around 75% illegal, despite what everyone says. I asked the abogado whether I could make everything totally legal and he said it was impossible. He is fond of saying ‘no pasa nada’, they all are.

jackytoo

I read that nearly all the swimming pools in Axarquia that were built in the last few years are illegal, they are just listed as pozos I would not buy anything if there was the slightest doubt or any fudging of the wording. Those Abogados are worse than the Agents as they are supposed to be working solely for the client.

bil

Really? Well, I did read somewhere that it is technically impossible in the UK to own a car or walk down the street without breaking one law or another.

If everyone went by that standard you quote, I doubt that more than a small % of houses would have been sold.

I remember when we went to sell our house in the UK, the papers done by quite a good legal firm when my mother had bought it, were waaayyy out with their measurements as well as a couple of blinding omissions that were never identified.

Casa Santo Estevo

All of this talk about this should not happen in a modern European country gets me thinking that maybe I should start a new thread. This will be about how a modern European country allows companies to rob the pension funds in order to keep the company going or the same funds are used to refund creditors of a company that has gone bust...What will happen to those persons savings?
Can you tell me which modern European country is that then?

cricketman

Yes absolutely

Or the way that the Bank of England prints off £200 Billion to flood the market and make the pound weaker and reduce its debts. Effectively stealing £4k from the pockets of every person in Britain

There is stealing in broad daylight and then there is midnight robbery

steviedeluxe

Lol, I agree with your view, but to be fair this thread is concerned about the illegal homes in Spain. I'm as much to blame as anyone (as I was responding to the knee-jerk triumphalism/jingoism of a couple of posters) but in a sense I agree with Jackytoo - it doesn't matter if other countries are worse at certain things, we're discussing the uncertain position of people who've bought homes that later turned out to be illegal. I can't begin to understand what stress some of them must be under. However I also agree with CM - the answer is not to be found by posting anti-Spanish stuff on boards like this - an effective political lobbying group has to be formed by those affected.

Lenox

Well, of course there are some. The biggest is the AUN with about 30,000 members and good contacts at both European parliament and ambassadorial level, and the AUAN in Albox, Almería, another (for example) in Lliber with a useful webpage AULN, in Chiclana and elsewhere.
There's a federation of these groups, called FAUN: there is 'Ciudadanos Europeos' with a massive membership (I'm not sure how many links I'm allowed on one posting), Other groups like AULAN and SOHA and Spanish sites like Plataforma por los Afectados por la Ley de Costas' and the influential blog 'Urbanismo Patas Arriba'.

jackytoo

Can it really be termed "anti-spanish" if it's news and is true? This is a "Spain" forum, room for good and bad news. I don't think there would be as much negative on here if a few posters didn't try to defend the indefensible, just gets people fighting there corner and bringing out more negatives.

steviedeluxe

No, the reason people start arguing is because certain posters start sneering that the Spanish are not a modern western country, or that (according to A***) the Spanish are far more corrupt than the British. As CM and Casa (and indeed myself) have pointed out, if you start to make a p***ing competition out of this, there are plenty of ways to show the UK in a bad light too.
Anyway, a thread like this is possibly a waste of time; too many have entrenched positions. Good to see that Lenox posted those links to lobbying groups though - at least people caught in such a situation now know where they get help/guidance.

cricketman

Exactly

Nothing wrong with posting bad news about Spain, I welcome it. But I don’t like the accompanying snide derogative remarks and nationalist one-up-manship - did I just write that?

JLFS

We all have our own opinions and mostly those opinions are based on experience.

Most of the posters on here came to live in Spain in a "priveledged" postition, for many different reasons, ie to enjoy the retirement in a better climate, to relax a more, etc.

So of course that would colour your opinion, It is new and" exotic" for most.

Whereas my posts come from a different point of view, a starting point that my family left all that they knew, to go to a different country, not as most on here or to enjoy the outdoors more or a "capricho" (I dont know how to express the word I am looking for in Spanish or English, but this one will do).

We went to the UK, because either as a family we failed or, as I have seen through my life Spain failed us, and many others that had to leave to survi
ve.
The same is true for Italians a Portugese too

I still see the results of Spain failing to look after is "not so well off every day.

How many posters on here had to leave the UK because the really could not survive there, because if you could not afford to be in UK, then here in Spain, you are well and truly snookered.

I am not talking about pensioners, I am talking about people who have families to bring up.

The lack of free dental care for children is still a shock to me, I have seen so many youngish Spanish people who have had no end of trouble, through this lack of what in my opinion, should be available.

The Spanish have always held great store in land and property, it always meant secruity for the generations, at least they would have somewhere to live even if money was tight.

This seems at great odds with this "legalised theft and extortion" that some homeowners are facing, with illegal housing.

Surely if you lose your home because of "dishonesty or incompetence" of a third party, then compensations should be awarded, either from the soliciors or local councils insurance scheme, so that there would be more care taken before these scandals keep happening again and again.

If the price was paid by the corrupt and the negligent instead of paid by the innocent, then this wholesale "shafting" would soon stop.

There are fact and figures that may show certain things but Do such figures reflect real life,

Egxample

10 people earning 100k euros, and 10 people earning 5000 per year. so the average wage of the 20 people studied is 52500 per annum.

It is a fact and the fighures are there, but it does not reflect that way.

With facts and figures as a guide, everyone with 2 legs has more than the average number of legs for a human being................statistics are the same, they refelect a general picture, but not the everyday hardships.

For those expats who are doing well in Spain, (the ones who arenot are heading back or thinking about heading back to the UK) dont be too hasty to always compare the UK to Sapin without having a good look around you, at the local population who have not had the advantages that being British has give most of you.

Me and my family and my wifes too, will always be grateful to the UK, I cannot say it any clearer than that, and if anyone does not believe that the UK gave them a good start, then look at the Morrocan expats in Spain and how they live compared to the -British expats (in general)

HBG

After watching a football match on TV this afternoon, I’m totally subdued about praising the UK, but on a serious note concerning Spanish practises and the UK response, I got to thinking about our German and Scandinavian expats and in my area there are plenty.

The Scandinavian expats especially seem to have a different approach to Spanish bureaucracy; they bring their cars over, don’t bother with residencia or anything else and the Spanish authorities leave them alone.

Maybe it’s because they don’t cause trouble, they just want to live in the sun, rather than their freezing countries, and just go along with Spanish ways. There are Finnish, Swedish, German and Norwegian (they have their own consulate here) neighbours in my area, all with cars from their own countries and if you suggest that they should change their driving licences to Spanish ones, they laugh their heads off.

From what I can see, the Spanish love them.

agoreira

But of course it´s not just me. When an "an Anglo-Spaniard and ex-international banker with over 25 years experience of doing business in Spain" is of the opinion that Spain is "One of the Most Corrupt Democratic Countries in the world", guess what? I choose to side with his opinion over your limited rose tinted view.

agoreira

Whim? Antojo?