Those Mayors and politicians in the junta are sooo corrupt they would want nearly as much as the house was worth for a bribe.

Lenox do you ever feel the "I'm alright Jack" amongst some ex-pats. There always seems to be the assumption around that the purchaser must have done something wrong.

I dont like the way nationality is brought in to it, like an "us vs them" mentality. All kinds of nationalities are effected, Spanish included. As some people often quote, we are all EU!

This is a particular problem of a unique, devolved political system that is only 35 years old and a reaction to Franco's "there is only one Spain" mantra. There are going to problems like these along the way.

Responsibility was evolved to the largely corrupt local mayors (Spaniards like to be governed locally, not dictated to from Madrid) who were often elected off the back of construction companies money. There was a huge opportunity for making money for these guys who quite often are mayors of incredibly modest villages with little history of external investment.

The mayors and construction companies hoovered up the investment by building where they shouldnt, but everyone, including the local lawyers didnt think (or chose to ignore that) the regional or national government would later pressurise the corrupt local mayors (or often their successors) into knocking down the illegal properties. The mayors couldnt care less as they and their friends were getting rich.

The real crime is that the mayors were given too much freedom and responsibility and the regional and national governments were slow to act. Hopefully, if the problem is treated properly then the political system will be tightened up and all but the most extreme examples of property will be allowed to stand for payment of a reasonable urbanization fee.

That is what needs to be lobbyed for! Enough with the "Spain are backwards and corrupt" stuff, it doesnt help at all. Everything needs to be seen in context in order to understand and improve it.

300,000 illegal builds in Andalusia. Back in 2006 it was estimated that there were 90,000 in Valencia (and they´ve built a few more since then). And what about Murcia and Alemeria ? A figure of over half a million is starting to look realistic just for the regions along the Med coast. A problem on that scale can´t be explained away by a few idiot Brits leaving their brains on the plane. When a system fails so completely over so many years, a good deal of responsibility has to lie with local and regional government. Now it looks like those responsible for this mess trying to dump both the bill and the blame for their failure on both the foreign and national buyers. When this issue comes up Spanish forums, many of comments are of the "what can they expect if they buy in Hispanistan" variety. People, Spanish national and foreigners alike, are entitled to expect a bit more than that from Spain, aren´t they ?

I know a lot of expats and those who have been in spain under say 10 years, are, in the main happy and love Spain and the Spanish people. However, I know four people who have lived here for over 20 - 25 years - interestingly, they dont know each other, but they all have one thing in common - the four of them absolutely detest the Spanish and never have a good thing to say about them! They all say the same kind of things that Lenox does. They have no respect for them because in their words "the Spanish are 2000 years behind the rest of the civilized world!!???????

Just an observation

Jo xxx

Well, Gosh, I hope I'm not one of them.
I don't like the Andalucía government, and in my view, Seville is probably the most corrupt (regional) capital city in Europe - maybe Palermo beats it - I have no idea.
Grilloman just likes to create friction on this site. If the thread doesn't interest him, he should 'leave off'.
The Spanish people? I have lived here a long time and raised three kids in Spain. I like them just fine (I know - it's a bit like a Londoner saying 'I like the British' but, after all, it's getting a bit silly here on this thread).

Leaving aside the corruption issue for a moment, I happen to know both sides of the dispute in Catral, a small Spanish town which has 1,300 illegal homes on its doorstep.

The mostly British buyers of those illegal homes say that they did everything per book, employing Spanish lawyers and Notaries, and are now being asked for more fees to legalise their homes and to have the town services like water and electricity to be connected.

The Spanish occupants of the small town can’t understand why those foreign buyers expect them to pay for those services to be connected. The small town doesn’t have the money to connect those services anyway.

I can’t see how this dispute and the many similar ones can ever be resolved. The threat of bulldozing the illegal homes is an empty one, who’s going to pay for it?

There are bent politicians in the UK and Spain. I'd cheerfully see the scum garotted on live TV.

There are stupid and reckless people out there, and most of us have been one or both at some time in our lives.

However for those who strove to buy, legally and honestly and assumed that the proper authorities and people like solicitors would be responsible for their actions, their blood must boil at that level of treachery.

Unfortunately we never seem to get rid of the thieves who often end up controlling our lives. Can you imagine working hard all your life, and then you discover a fat man called Maxwell had wasted all your pension money? It's sometimes surprising we don't have more revolutions take place!

There certainly are, but until someone shows me half a million illegal homes in UK I'll continue believing that Spain is far more corrupt than UK.

I think this whole affair about "illegal" properties es a scandal.

People from the UK are not used to the level of "shafting" that happens in Spain, not only to the Brits but Spanish as well.

There are stories like this all over Spain, and I know that some will say that there is corruption in the UK, ie Mps expenses etc, but the MPs claiming for duck houses does not DESTROY the lives of a large number of property buyers-

The like of Robert Maxwell has sold off the pensions of thousands and it is devestating for each and every one of them, but I personally dont know anyone in the UK that has been shafted by the authorities.

I have been house buyer in both countries, and when you employ a solicitor in the UK for the transaction, it is very rare that anything goes wrong with the purchase.

Any irregularity is picked up when doing the searches etc involved.

There does seem to be a rather large number of solicitors etc, who dont seem to be on the ball for whatever reason, ie ignorance or dodgyness, for want of another word.

Also it find it very sad, that the Brits have that have been caught out in this type of transaction, seem to be blamed for their predicament in some way, ie not speaking the language.
I know Spanish and Italians in the UK hwho did not have great language skills when they brought their properies, and yet all went well, as far as I know not one of them has had their garden taken from them, been asked to pay to have the dwelling legalised or had a house demolished.

It must be so galling to have your fellow countrymen also sticking their oar in with comments about the buyers stupidity, which can occur but not on the scale we are talking about.

Lives are being ruined and the "its your own fault" comments dont help at all.

Usually a community of immigrants all pull for each other, give a bit of encouragement and support, but here sometimes it is the opposite, the knives are out.

Even those not affected should be thankful, that they were not caught out in this scandal and revelling in others misfortune is a sad way to pass the time.

Agree, I have said before that as bad as the MP´s expenses fiasco was, it was small beer compared with Spain´s corruption, and as you say, nobody ended up with a worthless, illegal property. And the Maxwell case was certainly very serious, but the fund was replenished, and we are talking about one case a long time ago. Someone is clutching at straws. Spain is seriously corrupt, even if Grilloman thinks not, the Spanish themselves are in no doubt, read some of their comments here.

It’s very hard to follow such a perceptive post as the one posted by JLFS, and I’m not going to try and merely applaud what he wrote.

I’ve bought houses both in the UK and Spain too, and the UK system is far more transparent than the Spanish one, but I haven’t been shafted in Spain either.

I must admit looking at a new build in Almeria some years ago and not believing that the house could possibly be sold at that price. I calculated that the land must have been free for the developers to sell it at that price and walked away.

Oh come off it. It doesn't matter whether we are talking about Equitable Life, Barings Bank collapses, Mandelson's dealings, politicians expenses, or British Aerospace slush funds etc etc. the list goes on and on. I'm not even saying Spain isn't more corrupt - I remember a certain Jesus Gil y Gil - but to try and claim the UK is squeaky clean and that the only case of corruption was with Maxwell --- pathetic even by your standards. When's the last time a British politician was caught out and had to resign? About four weeks ago - that Lib Dem guy.

ha! ha! ha! I think I'll use that as a signature!

Someone didnt read my last post, but prefers to put words in my mouth

I agree that Robert Maxwell was a fat crook, but what a brave man. The only other brave man I can readily think of was Saddam Hussein. That’s the trouble with brave people, they’re always the first to jump out of the trenches, and also the first to take a chance in other aspects of life.

The little people in life run them down and proudly denounce them from the safety of an anonymous internet forum, but when confronted with them in real life, run for their lives.

The little people will never be involved in anything dodgy; they haven’t got the bottle for it.

What’s it got to do with illegal homes? It takes bottle to buy a finca on 9,000 square metres and build a mansion on it. And if it goes wrong, you can row out on to the dark Mediterranean and jump off. If you’ve got the bottle.