johnnye

Thanks horizon,

I just phoned them and they confirmed that I could apply in March 2011, as predicted by the calculator. I only gave them my passport number.

JAJ - I will bear in mind what you said about the accuracy of this information though - thanks for your input.

Pollyana

Yes, be wary, they have fed me so much complete rubbish I wouldn't trust a word they say anymore. I've been told things that vary from "once you have sent the application form there is no limit on how far ahead you can sit the test, could be a years time" and "your visa and the passport it is in (thats the UK one!) are both invalid as soon as you sit the test" and "we will sned your test dates by email, but the email system isn't working so when you don't get the email you will need to ring us again" (I kid you not, thats what they said )
All complete tosh, and that's just part of it.

louie

On the whole, it seems the citizenship calculator is correct, as long as you put the correct lawful residence date in, unless you qualify for citizenship within four years of the (correct) lawful residence date. However the guidance with the citizenship calculator on the lawful residence date is incorrect/misleading, so it's good to hear that you were given the right date when you rang.

WS

I filled in the online calculator and it gave me a date. When I did my test (pre Nov 09) they gave me a different date two days earlier than the calculator

louie

That's pretty close then Might have been something to do with including days of arrival and departure possibly. Either way, I checked JohnnyE dates and agree with the citizenship calculator, not that that necessarily proves anything....

johnnye

Hi Louie, yes you are correct about the calculator giving misleading information about lawful residence date. It s very unclear as to its meaning.

johnnye

Pollyana, I've been reading your posts and you have definitely had a bad experience, I hope I don't have the same bad experience when I eventually apply. Reading all this information makes me aware of what to look out for though.

louie

Well that's interesting (hadn't seen it before) - see couple of pages attached. To summarise, the instructions contend that you cannot be absent if you have not previously been present. So if you arrive for the first time ever in Australia on day 1, you do not qualify for citizenship until four years later, even if you never leave Australia in that time.

Not sure I follow the bit on page 65 (and I have to say I think it is badly written). It seems to be saying that you have to have had a valid visa on the day four years immediately before you apply (as opposed to having been lawfully present in Australia at some point prior to that). Which would imply that if you had previously visited on a tourist visa/ETA, which had expired by the day four years before you apply, you would not qualify.

So in Johnny's case, if we assume he applied for an ETA in September 2006 (which would have expired in September 2007), he would qualify from March to September 2011, but not between September 2011 and the fourth anniversary of his return to Australia in January 2012. Which seems very odd to me.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts, JAJ.....

johnnye

Louie, the dates you quote there are bang on. I applied for the eta in Sept 06, but did not use it until dec 06. So the visa was still valid in March 07 even though I was not present in Australia.

johnnye

Louie, just read the article and now seems to make sense. That trip I made as
a tourist to watch England lose 5-0 at cricket was worth it after all. Thanks for that very useful information.

JAJ

First thought is that they've just uploaded a new version of the ACIs. The version from January 2010 doesn't have any of this.

Secondly, the ACIs cannot override the Act ... I would still suggest that they are going beyond the authority given to them and could be struck down by the AAT or a court. There are two specific issues where they may be going beyond the Act's authority:

1. Whether an "absence" requires a period of presence first; and

2. If someone is absent at the start of the 4 year period, but has previously been in Australia, I am unclear how they can insist on a visa being held. In other words, even if one accepts the first contention that an absence requires a period of presence first, having been in Australia as a tourist in 1985 should be acceptable for that purpose.

I know there are people on the forum who believe that DIAC are all-knowing, etc, but in reality they do sometimes extend their authority, not always intentionally, and are regularly brought back into line by tribunals and the courts.

If they really want to operate the law this way, the Minister may need to go back to Parliament and get a more precise wording.

Mikail

Hi Guys

Over the last 2 weeks since I posted the first thread, I have been collating the certified documentations, i.e. proof of identity in the community, birth certificate, passport photo, utility bill, temporary visa stamp and PR visa stamp date of entry on temporary and PR visa.
I am now ready to submit in my application. I will be sending my application in today. Hopefully, I get my citizenship in 3 months.

Mikail

roaringmouse

Good luck, as although JAJ and I disagree with exactly when you're eligible neither of use think you're eligible until next year - JAJ said February 2011, and I said August 2011. Be interesting to see if you get anywhere.
Unclear on what JAJ thinks now about your eligible date since he refreshed himself with the Citizenship Instructions that were updated 2 months ago.

JAJ

There is a chance the Citizenship Instructions may be illegal in their interpretation of the Act. Perhaps DIAC obtained advice from the Attorney General before issuing them that way (they should have done) - or perhaps not. And even if they got advice from the AG the AAT/courts may take a different view if someone challenges it.

But in the circumstances of the original poster it means August 2011, under DIAC policy, or February 2011 if he is willing to get a good lawyer and go to the AAT. Problem is that going to the AAT takes time as well as money, for 99% of people it will be simpler to wait the extra few months.

Mikail

Hi Roaring Mouse/JAJ

Before I decided to apply, I visited the residence calculator and it says that I am eligible to apply.

I will keep everyone informed in this thread when I get a positive outcome from the DIAC.

Regards
Mikail