Katamoungdapidgeons

Any expats in Sweden who can share the positives of Swedish life!
I have some big concerns (re:cash see the "UK or Sweden" thread) so would appreciate some positives!

Celtic Princess

I'm in Sweden. Bloody roasting today. 35 degrees, I thought Sweden was supposed to be cold. So what do you want to know about?

Katamoungdapidgeons

Just wondering how people find it. Any one I've spoken to says firstly how great its supposed to be quickly followed by some stereotype about wife beating, alcoholism, shared naked saunas, depression, herrings, rubbish food etc.
Which got me thinking is it both great & or is it not as good as....
Tried to do some research but most research seemed to prove both sides.
So I was hoping expats in Sweden my post some good things that they found to be true & good about swedes/sweden rather than the statistics or stereotypes.
I have been told its hard to make Swedish friends rather than pleasant acquaintances. I wonder if you have found this . Are there many expats where you are?
I also looked at "facts" which I'm re-evaluating e.g. that 20% of Swedish children grow up with an alcholic parent, I'm not really sure if thats more than the UK but I was shocked when I came across it. Is it a big drinking culture?
Also I am interested in SAD which is a winter depression that apparently is common for Swedish women but even more so for expat Ladies who didn't grow up in such a light deprived climate. Have you found any light cafes apparently there are some in Stockholm where they are light with daylight bulbs which you get as a cure for SAD. Did you find that the climate made you feel a bit blue?
So really I'm just a bit apprehensive about this and that hope for a bit of good news!

Celtic Princess

Ok, I'll try to answer each of you questions in turn. I too have heard all those negatives you have mentioned, so maybe some experience them, but I can only tell you how it is from my perspective.

Wife beating - I have not come across or heard of a single instance of this. If anything, Swedish men seem to be far more subserviant to their women than British men.

Alcoholism - I have heard that this is a big problem and as a result alcohol is only sold through state owned shops, which only open for a few hours in the day. I have met some Swedes who drink alot and some that don't. But I have never seen drunks hanging around the town centre like I have in the UK. Also you need to bear in mind what the average Swede considers to be an alcohol problem. More than 2 beers to them is a problem.

Shared naked saunas - Yeah right. I haven't even seen a sauna yet. I see from the estate agents websites that some houses do have them, but I don't know anyone who does.

Depression - I'm the only one I know who is being treated for this and I had it before I came here. The help available here is far superior to that in the UK, which is almost non existent.

Herrings and rubbish food - Yes they do like their pickled herring. And it is quite nice, apart from the surstromming which should be avoided like the plague. The rest of the food is plain and simple but the supermarkets stock everything you need to create the stuff you like. I couldn't buy mince pies at Christmas but I could buy all the ingredients. And in Goteborg and Stockholm there is an English shop where you can buy everything not available here, like jaffa cakes and walkers prawn coctail crisps. In the bigger towns you have all the normal restaurants like Indian, Chinese, Thai, Mexican and so forth.

Swedish friends - I have made a few, but I'm a very outgoing, bubbly, friendly person who goes out of their way to make friends. Also I'm a smiler, I smile and laugh all the time, the Swedes seem to love that. One of my new Swedish friends is even coming to England with me in September for her first visit. You may have to do all the phoning and inviting and not be bothered by that, but the Swedes will love you for it, they're just not very good at reaching out themselves.

Expats where I live - I live in the middle of nowhere so no there aren't, but in the larger towns there are. They have internet forums and meet up for drinks or curry every now and again. I've been to a few, which were nice.

SAD - I've not seen any light cafe's like you mention, but I live near Goteborg which is in the south. It's on the same latitude as Scotland. It did seem a bit dull in winter, but not massively so, I guess it would be a problem further north. The climate is making me a bit blue today though, it's 36 degrees and I'm bloomin roasting. Whoever said Sweden was cold, lied! Seriously, I got sunburnt yesterday driving to the supermarket. And what is great is that there are lakes everywhere and unlike the uk they all have areas suitable for swimming, with changing rooms and jettys. It's great, just drive up and jump in, free of charge.

The difference that I see between the UK and Sweden is that the pace of life in Sweden is very slow and laid back. A bit like it was in the UK 30 years ago. This can be very frustrating for someone used to the fast uk pace. The only thing that has really bothered me about Sweden is their attitude of 'lagom' which is like 'enough'. It permeates everything and drives me mad. For example, in school the teachers (and Swedish parents) are happy for the children to do enough, ie to pass, they cannot comprehend the idea of achieving ones best, reaching the peak of potential. It's just not Swedish to do better than the others and excel, unless everyone is excelling. But I can live with this so long as I get to vent my frustation with it every now and again.

I hope this helps.

Katamoungdapidgeons

Thanks so much Celtic Princess it was very nice of you to give me such a comprehensive response, I can see why you have so many Swedish friends. I think because so few people have any real experience of Swedes or the Swedish they tend to rely on stereotypes. Obviously you seem to be getting on really well in Sweden and with the Swedes and you seem like the type of person who would get on anywhere with anyone bearing those things in mind are you glad to be in Sweden as opposed to - England/Ireland/Scotland/Wales or other places you had experience of. I had a little burst of applying for jobs recently I tried for Germany, Spain, Sweden and Uk. The German vacancy was withdrawn, the Spannish never got back to me & I got the Uk & Swedish jobs. I know I could move on fairly easy from the Uk, as I'm already here so moving withn Uk will be OK, if I go to Sweden (as I come with a tribe&circus) moving will be more costly & complicated . So from your experience should I go for Sweden or hold out for a while in UK till I find somewhere else.

Celtic Princess

Unfortunately only you can know for sure what is best for your family. And I do really miss England at times. Earlier this year I felt so homesick I had my husband looking for jobs back in England. But it passed and now I'm back to knowing that our quality of life is far higher here. There is no way we could ever have bought a house in England and here we have a huge house, that most people in England can only dream about. That's really important to me, as I'm quite house proud, but for someone else it may not count for much.

One thing I would say though is, "What have you got to lose?". You can always go back after a few years if you find it just isn't right for you family. And yes, this may cost you a bit, but you will have gained a massive amount of knowledge and had an experience that not many others in the UK get.

Good luck with whatever you decide, I hope it works out for you. And if need to know anything else just shout.

Drosera

I'll just add my comments as Celtic Princess has done a pretty good job and I agree with most of the things she said.
I would try surströmmming even if just once - in the company of people who know how to serve it.
I do get a little down in the winter - (I usually don't realise until I come out of it in the spring!) and I have been to a light cafe once - in Stockholm. I have been to saunas many times - both public and private, single sex and mixed (with friends and colleagues). The "naked" part is really up to the individual. People can be naked under a big towel and only take it off to shower - it really is not a big deal and absolutely not a voyeurs paradise.
Pub culture is not the norm here so Swedes will tend to meet in homes instead of an "after-work" beer.
Does this help??

YYZlover

*coughs and raises hand* was a victim. not anymore.

Alcoholism is widespread in some cities, especially the more industrial based places. Or maybe I should say "Excessive drinking" more than alcoholism. But, you don't see the drunken yobs in the city centers as in UK.

The reason that alcohol is sold in state owned shops open at regular shop hours through weekdays and in some places even on saturdays, is that the government is raking it in on taxes. It has been discussed at length in the government if it should be let lose to shop owners but so far has not won a majority of support from liberals, democrats or conservatives.


Most public pool houses have saunas and you can go in naked unless otherwise told. BUT they are not mixed gender saunas.

There is a high rate of depression in the country and more people are than own up to it. that is why it is really difficult to get an appointment with a counselor/therapist. In some places you have to wait months before you get booked in.

COOP is stocking more and more of international food even in rural areas. Lidl has a fair bit of it as well. Surströmming is quite nice once you get past the smell of it. Hold your nose to avoid the smell, which is foul!

Most swedes in the age of 20 - 50 love speaking english. I have several british/american/candian friends in Sweden who all say that they hate that because they never get to practice their Swedish. All swedes they meet want to speak english. English is mandatory in school and is taught from grade 3 or 4 and up.

It sounds like you aren't too far from where my parents are and there is a quite a few expats there. Are you looking in the wrong places?

Some hospitals provide this. I think it started with light/uv treatment for people suffering from psoriasis and is being used for SAD as well. The first time I ever saw a SAD light was in UK.

Up north daylight is non existent in the winter and 24/7 in the summer.

Not all lakes have suitable areas for swimming but most do.

On a side note: There is also a misconecption to "allemansrätt" where I've heard people say you can camp anywhere you want for as long as you want and landowner can't do anything about it. Wrong.

You can camp anywhere you want on private land PROVIDED that you are within sight of the landowners house and that you not stay longer than 2 nights (might even be just 1)

Been to Stockholm lately? Not slow there at all.
And I found it to be the other way around when I got to UK. I thought I had moved to Spain and the "mañana" attitude.

Maybe change to a semi-private school with montessori teaching. There kids will be encouraged to perform at their best and excel. That's the type of schooling I had.


Hope my view of it all gives a bit of perspective.

Celtic Princess

Hehe. This made me chuckle. Looking in the wrong places! At the time of writing that I was living in a tiny village in the middle of nowhere. There was nowhere else to look. Unless they are hiding under rocks in the forest. In my village, everyone knew everyone and had lived there forever. We were the second immigrant household there. The first being the Finnish guy who had lived there for 45 years.

We have just moved to a small town about 20 minutes away from said village and I have already met, quite by accident, 2 other English families. And to be fair, I don't go looking for expats, if I wanted to surrond myself with my fellow countrymen I would have stayed in England.

Nope. That's why I said that my comments were just from my perspective.

We looked at that, but I still found it second rate when compared to the education I received and that my daughter requires. She is a gifted child and as such, in the UK, was receiving tuition, via the National Academy for Gifted Children, from some of the top academics in the country. Her school science teacher said that at 12, my daughter knew more and was more capable than any school science teacher could ever dream of being. We have yet to find a school here which can even comprehend her educational needs, let alone meet them.

YYZlover

When I left that place in Sweden there were 18.000 people and you could buy a fairly large flat for 20 pence (not joking). Strangely enough, now it's hard to get apartments there. The 20 pence apartment is now £6000 or more on the market and valued to twice of purchase price. Other houses are being built selling at $40k-£60k. I've seen houses go for £100k.

Makes me wonder what my parents 7 acre place with stables and all is worth these days. They picked it up 10 years ago for £25k.

I'm currently in Toronto. Going back to Sweden today (bummer. Don't want to go to be honest). I was yapping with a swedish friend on the phone and he asked me if I met any Swedish people and made any swedish friends. I responded with pretty much exactly what you said above.


Yeah I know. Stockholm makes UK seem slow. It's on par with New York, IMHO.

I know what you mean. There really aren't any options for gifted kids unless you want to pay for private schools.

I have heard LOADS of good about the English school in Gothenburg. Another one is Göteborg's Lilla Samskola (up through grade 6) and Göteborgs Högre Samskola (grade 7-9 and then gymnasium). I went to the latter. So did my sister. My principal retired just a year ago!!! I HIGHLY recommend that school. They back their students up all the way and they do look after the gifted and encourage them. But, your kids would have one heck of a commute.


Anyway - I'll PM you.

Katamoungdapidgeons

Hi, Just to say we are now resident in the land of the midnight sun & the £4 cucumber! thanks to everyone who responded to this thread.

mazz1

hi, where abouts did you settle? just wondering.We are in listerby south sweden and i luv it.PS celticsprincess we have a sauna!

Celtic Princess

I knew they were out there somewhere. I have met a new friend here in my town. She has a sauna in her house too. She uses it to keep the Christmas decorations in.

mazz1

celtic princess, lucky you meeting new friends,i truly am in the middle of no where and never meet anyone.Going through a why did i come here moment.....Noticed on another post you get homesick also,I'm in the same boat as you came because hubby had a really good job offer,learning swedish has proved more of a challenge then i expected and i really miss my mates and a good old chin wag!!

Celtic Princess

I go through periods of really bad homesickness and then it completely disappears. I think it is hugely affected by how lonely I am feeling. I live in a small town (village really) and am finally getting to meet people. Before that I lived in a tiny village and I was so isolated and sad.

Also my current SFI group is much friendlier than the last.

Have you found the Swedish forums yet? The ones for English speakers in Sweden. There are a few. I have made a few friends through them. We meet up regularly for coffee and a chat.