Blackladder

Just a minor irritation to overcome before falling ill in Sweden: get a degree in pharmacology.

The reason is that 90 per cent of all doctors in Sweden are;
either a) on their way to, or
b) on their way from

the golf course.
The other 10 per cent are already out there concentrating on their handicap (a damn sight more than they will ever concentrate on YOURS).

So after a quick day trip up to Guy's to get your degree, you will be able, in that nanosecond of time before the window of opportunity closes and the doctor shouts 'Fore! ahem Next!, to rush in and fully explain what is wrong with you and what particular drugs he/she should prescribe.

I have been troubling my aspiring Tigress Woods with a persistent bronchial cough over the last year and a half. She has sent me on countless lung x-rays (she was probably somewhere out on the back nine when they did anatomy, but hell, lungs - larynx who gives a shit, and why don't they rationalise their terminology for god's sake?). But the thing is, in all this time she has not once, not one single time, asked me to say Ah and poke a torch down my throat to see if there is anything there - after all there might even be a winning lottery ticket or something useful there.

All of this preamble leads up to the shocking fact that Sweden has the second longest waiting times for health care in the EU, beaten only by Latvia. Come to think of it, better forget about the degree and take a course in Lazarus comebacks instead.

edp

haha, after my elsewhere documented trip to the dentist for my misleading bruxism diagnosis, i went to the doctor and told him about my jaw, head and chest pains. He didn't do any physical tests, he agreed with my personal anxiety diagnosis and palmed me off to the psychologist...when the pain of my teeth became so bad and i ended up in akutmottagning the did an ECG because as any doctor should know jaw and chest pain are possible symptoms of heart failure. Luckily for me this wasn't case but thank you Doctor Lars at Vardcentral for your wonderful bedside manner and due diligence. Sweden leading the way in their 'no blame' policy. Really it means you can be shit at your job and noone can do anything about it.

Zen10

I have found your posts on Sweden amusing and also a real eye opener. I have never been to Sweden but like many others I imagined it as a sort of social paradise operating with total efficiency. How does it compare to Norway? I ask because I know the latter has a smaller population and a lot of oil and wondered if that is elevating their living standard above their neighbour.

edp

I have a nursing friend in Norway and it seems that it is pretty good, i bet they have all the machines that go 'beep'. He says that he works with lots of Swedes and they are very efficient, I also taught English to Swedish nurses and they knew their stuff. In my, fairly limited, experience, there just seems like a general apathy. Sure you get bad treatment anywhere but im comparing with my experience of a very busy inner city health centre in the UK where the treatment, care and service was always excellent and I have often presented with hypochondriac/psychosomatic symptoms! I really think its accountability and the general culture of not complaining in Sweden - be happy with what you are given. In a way thats a nice way to look at life, be grateful for what you have got. Its hard for a brit coming from a fairly engrained culture of constant moaning and demanding of rights.

Blackladder

Hello Zen 10,
sorry about the delay, RL got in the way! I don't know too much about Norway, having only spent some holidays there, never lived full time. You're right tho' about the oil. This has given Norway (for so long the poor relative of both Sweden and Denmark) an enormous boost. So much so that their economy - also outside the Eurozone - is among the strongest in Europe. Their Crown is stronger by far than the Swedish Crown. It seems they are quite happy to stay outside the EC for the foreseeable future. They are ferociously restrictive when it comes to granting asylum to refugees. They are bound by Nordic treaties to allow other Scandinavians to settle in their country. Many Swedes who travel to Norway, especially the central region around Telemark, come home with their cars all stratched and bumped, the results of ongoing hatred on the part of some older Norwegians for the disgraceful behaviour of the Swedish government in WW2, when the Swedes actively collaborated with the Germans. The same can be said of the attitude in Denmark towards Swedes - who cross over the straits between the countries and get blind drunk on cheaper Danish booze. There was even a campaign in Copenhagen and Helsingör a few years ago entitled 'Keep Denmark tidy - take a Swede back to the ferry boat'
Blackie

Zen10

Many thanks Blackie. I have wondered about the Norwegian attitude to Sweden's behaviour in the war and the car scratching doesn't surprise me in the least, especially when you think of the brave resistance movement in Norway. They are getting even now I guess - with Norway so much higher in the UN standard of living index, etc. The rule you mention about letting other Scandinavians into Norway - does that include naturalised Scandinavians?

Cheers, et bonne chance en France!

Extreme

I have read/heard statements (opinions!?) that the value of Sweden's natural resources exceeds that of Norway. I assume this calculation would include forests, mines etc. You can probably twist these numbers anyway you want, but what other resources does Norway have except for the oil/gas?

I think the healthcare issues boils down to the fact that there is only one provider. Why would anyone care when you can't vote with your feet?

Don't mention the war... When I was in school Sweden's role in WW2 was never clearly explained. Sweden was neutral and it was left at that... It was not until later that I understood that Sweden may not have stood up for its neighbors and what was right.

Zen10

I'm not 100% but I think the Swedes provided Germany with a lot of resources in WWII so it's not just that they failed to stand up for their neighbours but that they actively helped the Nazis. Interesting what you say about resources, but you can't underestimate all that oil and gas!

Blackladder

A very brief summary of Sweden's war effort might be: 1939-1943 lick Hitler's arse, 1943-1945 lick Stalin's arse. Sweden repeatedly allowed German troops across its soveriegn territory (and even provided the rail transport). First to reinforce and relieve German troops stationed in Norway, then across Sweden from Norway to Finland to reinforce Operation Barbarossa by attacking Leningrad from Finland. Once the tide had turned, after Stalingrad, the photographs of Hitler that had adorned many a home and officers' mess in Sweden came down and pictures of Churchill or Stalin came up in their place. When the eastern front finally began to cave in, many German soldiers - most of them of Baltic origin - deserted and crossed into Sweden from Finland, or took boats across the Baltic Sea, claiming asylum. These were promptly returned by Sweden to the tender mercies of the advancing Russians. Makes you sick.
Blackie

Extreme

This is the way I understand it happened.

Thanks Blackladder, for a more detailed description of it.

Zen10

Yes many thanks - very informative, particularly the last bit about returning the asylum seekers.

edp

I guess it's now a long time ago, I think the question is how does the past affect the present. Sweden played 'wisely' and has benefitted from its position in the second world war - few post-war debts. No-one has ever really taken them to task and benefits from a world class reputation in terms of health care, education, business, innovation and quality of life. The reality of this is a whole new conversation but no-one can dispute the fact that the reputation exists. I think Swedes have a stronger instinct than most for avoiding trouble. It's why its quite hard here to engage someone in something outside of their immediate vision. It might cause them trouble and they are ticking along nicely as they are. In 2012, I think that most right minded people would think that war is probably best avoided. The problem with the second World War were the horrendous atrocities that Hitler undertook and in hindsight we can look at Sweden and say 'you stood by and watched while that was happening and you fed that machine'. I don't really know enough about Sweden's total engagement beyond it seems a pretty strong case that they were duplicitous and self-serving. Winning the war wasn't necessarily the greatest thing for Britain - Of course any other alternative than a win for the allies doesn't bear thinking about but Britain really suffered for its efforts and in the not too distant future it will be just another page in a history book. I think if we want to judge Sweden's history there would be a very strong argument for 'pot, kettle, black'. Britain's moral karma was only somewhat restored by virtue of 'bashing the evil Bosch'.

I had a friend at school and then at University and he always brown-nosed the right people and made himself look squeaky clean in any given situation. He wangled a job in the school stores when the rest of us had to dress up as cadet soldiers and march around in the freezing cold every friday. He's done bloody well for himself in life and morality is a very grey area.