scrubbedexpat141

Norm, I 'Norm'ally agree with you 99%, but disagree with the bit in bold above.

You sign up to be a soldier. Your job is to fight in wars, wherever they might be and for whatever reason.

My Sister went through Sandhurst and when I asked if she was bothered about being deployed somewhere like Iraq, she just let it slide off her shoulders and said she's paid to do a job, and if her jobs involves that then she'll do it the best of her ability.

My personal experience having spent time with charities like Toe in the Water and around military folk that are/were friends of my Sister is that the majority of squaddies don't know / care and above that they see it as a job and one to be proud of.

Hello.Kitty

would it make such a big difference if they were all with the same father?

It's just that it seems to be banded about as a key detail to prove that the mother is morally questionable. I've got 3 friends now whose partners have left them, leaving them to fend for themselves and their children, so if any of them were to find a decent man and have another kid, they too would have children by different fathers...

scrubbedexpat141

and I hope you would cease all contact immediately.

Frightfully dangerous game, being associated with those sorts.

OleJanx

To be honest with you, I don't think it would make much difference, the main point being that she got up the duff as it seemed to be a viable alternative to getting a job. After all, this bod once told me "The money isn't up to much, but the hours are good!"
I might come across as unsympathetic, but it isn't the kind of thing you hear and think "Poor woman!". Her motives were always "What's in it for me?"
And, yes, Scamp, I ceased contact with her, even though a trawl though sh*t can sometimes be , ummm....interesting?

scrubbedexpat141

hey, i was just messing around.

Each to their own. I've got a family member who doesn't work and has 3 kids (is married to the Dad of all 3) get's more in benefits than my ex earned working full time. I took the simple steps;

1. Stop talking to the family member, will only end in frustration
2. Upgrade the Mrs.

Both have long been completed.

OleJanx

Scamp, you seem to be on the right tracks!
1) Don't talk to family members! Remember:
United we fall
Divided we're lumbered!

2) Is it the All-New-New-And-Improved! Mrs Scamp Mk II who
is coming out to teach the third/fourth generation of Ex-Pat Brat?

(p.s.-don't really take anything I say too seriously; You have two
choices in life: Laugh or cry - I've done my crying....)

Norm_uk

No difference just because she has children by different men - that would be nonsense, people break up for valid reasons, divorce is common etc.

I think my point is against women who don't intend to keep the man around, and/or who just get pregnant because they know the state will look after them. That's something I object to - it's not only wrong for others to pay for that but it sets a terrible example to the children.

N.

Norm_uk

If there isn't a system of conscription in place then it's you are quite correct that they volunteer and it is a job...a very serious job they should be proud of.

But I think my point is that politicians start wars not the military. I think a lot of people have some resentment of the military (the people who keep us safe from external threats) because of foreign policy - which is something the politicians are responsible for. I think Britain, and most Western military organisations are the most professional in the world, and should be supported and thanked.

N.

Hello.Kitty

yes, that was my point - it doesn't make diddly squat difference because 5 kids are 5 kids, end of. It just seems to be a detail added in for a perceived extra moral high-ground so that Daily Mail readers can tut that little bit louder at the whole sorry tale.

The point is that it's only the sensationalist stories that ever come to light. Not every Kensington mansion has been rented out by the council to house immigrant families, just as not every single mum is a lazy, money-grabbing breeding-machine.

OleJanx

Norm, as you point out, there isn't a system of conscription in Britain at the moment, but is entirely voluntary. I still have to raise a grim smile when one of the women I work with announces that her son didn't join the Army to go to Afghanistan!
Leaving the multitude of rights and wrongs of Britains involvement in both Iraq and Afghanistan, I am always somewhat bemused when the fact that British soldiers are deployed overseas, their mothers start throwing a wobbler! Could it be they view a stint in the British Army as an alternative to an apprenticeship?
I'm sure that going through military training and discipline is not a bad thing, but excuse me! Politicians are prone to writing cheques they can't cash, and being very indifferent to those whose lives they are nominally given absolute authority over to use as they see fit. Recent history is able to confirm that politicians have only one interest in life, and that is for their own well being. The rest of us can go shit ourselves....
P.S Hello.Kitty- you should stop aknowledging the Waily Fail as a newspaper-it is a truly poisonous shit sheet up there with any of Murdoch's rubbish!

Paracletus

I am entirely against the whole idea of hero worship of the army. They are meant to protect the public, and I'd give them my full support in protecting us from an invading army..but when invading a foreign country, they are merely carrying out orders. If there was actual conscription, I'd be prone to have some empathy with the guys and girls, but when ou voluntarily signing up...Don't expect me to bow down and hero worship you.

Hell, I have a friend in the forces who had done 3 tours in Iraq..his head was totally ****ed up. He was in such a dark mental state. I went out for beers with him, and he ended up in some brooding mood telling me how he was protecting my freedom and the right to sit in a bar and drinking beer, much akin to the scene from the big lebowski when John Goodman starts talking about people ding face down in the muck so he could enjoy his cup of coffee in a famil restaurant. If anything, I feel nothing but sadness for m buddy who has been so mentally ****ed by carring out orders from above. But at the same time, he signed up for it and should if he wasn't, been well aware of the consequences.

Have you ever wondered why there are so many young Israeli's in Goa? (if you've been and seen them) Pschedlic trance from Israel was pretty huge in the 90's, the hippie movement was well and alive. But I think I'd be wanting to take drugs and dance if I had been forced into shooting at little kids and civilians for 3 years in hope to kill some 'terrorists'.

Norm_uk

Of course it's very naeive to think you can join the military and not have to be deployed to hot spots around the world. People who join today are lucky they were not alive in world war two where we lost millions of soldiers (today a thousand deaths spread over 5-10 years is enough to get the media and anti-war lobby screaming against our government and sometimes in support of our enemies, declared or otherwise).

Politicians have always been self-serving, nothing new there - they are humans like the rest of us. It's the degree to which they do it which is concerns me. A little discipline and struggle would do them well.

N.

scrubbedexpat141

Nailed it in one, she's got the kids in school on Wednesday...so fingers crossed she'll survive.

scrubbedexpat141

Re-reading your other post I see the above message in there as well, so I still agree wtih you.

You're very right its the guys in Whitehall and Parliament that start the wars, fortunately we have a largely decent set of armed forces to carry these orders out.

scrubbedexpat141

I think being mentally scarred is down to the individual.

I don't see the military personnel as heroes but they do a job I wouldn't do which is life threatening on an hourly basis. For that I have complete respect and think most people should too.