Where would you go....

Old Jan 29th 2020, 5:20 am
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Default Where would you go....

Morning....

I'm now in my 14th year in the ME and am contemplating a departure in the next year or two (have 6 months left on the lease). Although that may move back a few years as I may have a big project coming up which will keep me busy. Anyway its good to start having a think early so.....I'm currently considering..... Canada or New Zealand.

Canada as its not crazy far from the UK (family etc) and has nice mountains, decent people and nice things to do recreation wise.

New Zealand as it looks epic and has loads of cool things to do. Although it is on the other side of the world.

I have been to Canada but I was only little so can't remember it, however, I have been to the US a few times and I'm thinking Canada is just a nicer / more sensible version of the US.

I haven't ever been to NZ.

I'm a Eng Geo so generally I need mountains and folk who want to blow them up to build things... tunnels, roads, rail, dams etc. That said I am quite diverse in my skill set so can fit in most large / mega / giga civils setting. The Mrs currently works as sales / events manager (should be director) in the Motorsport industry and has experience working at several world class venues..... so she would be looking for something similar there. Doesn't have to be motorsport, as she has done theme parks too.

Any thoughts / recommendations / alternative suggestions? After reading the chat on another thread about how shit the holidays are in Canada (which was flavour of the month) i'm not so sure anymore.....

Also open to alternative suggestions. I was also thinking maybe Africa, the Caribbean or Scandinavia....

Driving issues:

Culture - needs one
Accepting / racially accepting - the Mrs is African and doesn't want to get shot, hence why the US is off the table.
Pay needs to be decent (ish)
Holidays - ditto
Work culture - not oppressive like here
English speaking preferably but not a game changer
Doesn't have to be flashy or too developed. A bit of rural peace and quiet may be good.
Somewhere where I can put down roots.

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Old Jan 29th 2020, 5:31 am
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Default Re: Where would you go....

Originally Posted by jam25mack
Morning....

I'm now in my 14th year in the ME and am contemplating a departure in the next year or two (have 6 months left on the lease). Although that may move back a few years as I may have a big project coming up which will keep me busy. Anyway its good to start having a think early so.....I'm currently considering..... Canada or New Zealand.

Canada as its not crazy far from the UK (family etc) and has nice mountains, decent people and nice things to do recreation wise.

New Zealand as it looks epic and has loads of cool things to do. Although it is on the other side of the world.

I have been to Canada but I was only little so can't remember it, however, I have been to the US a few times and I'm thinking Canada is just a nicer / more sensible version of the US.

I haven't ever been to NZ.

I'm a Eng Geo so generally I need mountains and folk who want to blow them up to build things... tunnels, roads, rail, dams etc. That said I am quite diverse in my skill set so can fit in most large / mega / giga civils setting. The Mrs currently works as sales / events manager (should be director) in the Motorsport industry and has experience working at several world class venues..... so she would be looking for something similar there. Doesn't have to be motorsport, as she has done theme parks too.

Any thoughts / recommendations / alternative suggestions? After reading the chat on another thread about how shit the holidays are in Canada (which was flavour of the month) i'm not so sure anymore.....

Also open to alternative suggestions. I was also thinking maybe Africa, the Caribbean or Scandinavia....

Driving issues:

Culture - needs one
Accepting / racially accepting - the Mrs is African and doesn't want to get shot, hence why the US is off the table.
Pay needs to be decent (ish)
Holidays - ditto
Work culture - not oppressive like here
English speaking preferably but not a game changer
Doesn't have to be flashy or too developed. A bit of rural peace and quiet may be good.
Somewhere where I can put down roots.
The UK ticks a lot of those boxes mate.
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Old Jan 29th 2020, 7:45 am
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Default Re: Where would you go....

Originally Posted by jam25mack
Morning....

I'm now in my 14th year in the ME and am contemplating a departure in the next year or two (have 6 months left on the lease). Although that may move back a few years as I may have a big project coming up which will keep me busy. Anyway its good to start having a think early so.....I'm currently considering..... Canada or New Zealand.

Canada as its not crazy far from the UK (family etc) and has nice mountains, decent people and nice things to do recreation wise.

New Zealand as it looks epic and has loads of cool things to do. Although it is on the other side of the world.

I have been to Canada but I was only little so can't remember it, however, I have been to the US a few times and I'm thinking Canada is just a nicer / more sensible version of the US.

I haven't ever been to NZ.

I'm a Eng Geo so generally I need mountains and folk who want to blow them up to build things... tunnels, roads, rail, dams etc. That said I am quite diverse in my skill set so can fit in most large / mega / giga civils setting. The Mrs currently works as sales / events manager (should be director) in the Motorsport industry and has experience working at several world class venues..... so she would be looking for something similar there. Doesn't have to be motorsport, as she has done theme parks too.

Any thoughts / recommendations / alternative suggestions? After reading the chat on another thread about how shit the holidays are in Canada (which was flavour of the month) i'm not so sure anymore.....

Also open to alternative suggestions. I was also thinking maybe Africa, the Caribbean or Scandinavia....

Driving issues:

Culture - needs one
Accepting / racially accepting - the Mrs is African and doesn't want to get shot, hence why the US is off the table.
Pay needs to be decent (ish)
Holidays - ditto
Work culture - not oppressive like here
English speaking preferably but not a game changer
Doesn't have to be flashy or too developed. A bit of rural peace and quiet may be good.
Somewhere where I can put down roots.
As Scamp said, UK would probably offer those things. No doubt people will talk about Brexit too, but how often do people in Canada actually go to the mountains after a day at work (unless they live in the mountains:-)? The same with New Zealand and from Auckland to let's say Fox Glacier would be 18 hours (ferry included). In the same time you could drive to the Pyrenees and you also have the Cantabria region not too far away.
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Old Jan 29th 2020, 8:57 am
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Default Re: Where would you go....

Can't imagine your wife would find work in NZ. If you haven't already, post your query in the relevant country's Immi forums and see if you can even get in, let alone find work.
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Old Jan 29th 2020, 10:02 am
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Default Re: Where would you go....

Agree with moneypenny20. You need to start first with where you can get a visa. The Golden Age of Migration is over and it's not nearly as easy anymore, and that includes for places like NZ.

If you can get visas for both - Canada.

NZ can be a very difficult nut to crack, much moreso than places like Canada and Australia. Low wages + high cost of living, people who can be very insular towards non-NZ influences and a job market that can be clubby and very hard to break into. I highly recommend you post in the NZ forum your proposed circumstances and take on board the feedback you get. It really is a place you have to go into having thoroughly, thoroughly researched and with eyes wide open. The "lifestyle" thing looks awesome until you are having to budget for it on NZ wages, and the remoteness/isolation of the country and the impact that can have is something migrants continually underestimate. Singapore is 10 hours from Auckland and even Australia isn't that close. By the way, if you think NZ doesn't have big problems with race relations . . .

You will have higher wages in Canada, more job possibilities, it's much easier and cheaper to get to the UK, and you will have big American destinations at your disposal too. Toronto to New York is a 90 minute flight, Vancouver to Los Angeles is less than 3 hours.

So, just, think this one carefully, and make sure your wife is investigating possibilities in her field at the same time.
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Old Jan 29th 2020, 10:18 am
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Default Re: Where would you go....

Originally Posted by moneypenny20
Can't imagine your wife would find work in NZ. If you haven't already, post your query in the relevant country's Immi forums and see if you can even get in, let alone find work.
NZ are screaming out for rail professionals now! for a big metro (tunnels) that might well get you in. The New Zealand's have all the events managers they need, they call them Sheppard's.
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Old Jan 29th 2020, 12:09 pm
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Default Re: Where would you go....

Originally Posted by Scamp
The UK ticks a lot of those boxes mate.
Ha ha, thanks but no thanks! Not that desperate yet!
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Old Jan 29th 2020, 1:56 pm
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Default Re: Where would you go....

Go where the work is. That has always been the way !
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Old Jan 29th 2020, 2:02 pm
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Default Re: Where would you go....

The annual leave in Canada doesn't have to be rubbish, my husband was on 30 days plus BH's, it just depends on how senior you are and how in demand your skills are as to how much you can negotiate.

But as said above, visa first, as that may just make the decision for you. No idea on NZ immigration but Canada is points based, and if you're older and/or don't have much post-secondary education, you may not score enough without a job offer and sponsorship.
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Old Jan 29th 2020, 2:50 pm
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Default Re: Where would you go....

I am in the US now. Your wife will be fine. African Americans are a big minority and there's growing numbers of African immigrants. But I'd think Canada might be even better if the background is specifically African. And easier to emigrate to.

I love NZ. But it is far. And very, very few people of African heritages.
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Old Jan 29th 2020, 5:18 pm
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Default Re: Where would you go....

After 9 years in the Middle East I’ll be finished with full time employment....
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Old Feb 1st 2020, 8:07 am
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Default Re: Where would you go....

Originally Posted by jam25mack
Morning....

I'm now in my 14th year in the ME and am contemplating a departure in the next year or two (have 6 months left on the lease). Although that may move back a few years as I may have a big project coming up which will keep me busy. Anyway its good to start having a think early so.....I'm currently considering..... Canada or New Zealand.

Canada as its not crazy far from the UK (family etc) and has nice mountains, decent people and nice things to do recreation wise.

New Zealand as it looks epic and has loads of cool things to do. Although it is on the other side of the world.

I have been to Canada but I was only little so can't remember it, however, I have been to the US a few times and I'm thinking Canada is just a nicer / more sensible version of the US.

I haven't ever been to NZ.

I'm a Eng Geo so generally I need mountains and folk who want to blow them up to build things... tunnels, roads, rail, dams etc. That said I am quite diverse in my skill set so can fit in most large / mega / giga civils setting. The Mrs currently works as sales / events manager (should be director) in the Motorsport industry and has experience working at several world class venues..... so she would be looking for something similar there. Doesn't have to be motorsport, as she has done theme parks too.

Any thoughts / recommendations / alternative suggestions? After reading the chat on another thread about how shit the holidays are in Canada (which was flavour of the month) i'm not so sure anymore.....

Also open to alternative suggestions. I was also thinking maybe Africa, the Caribbean or Scandinavia....

Driving issues:

Culture - needs one
Accepting / racially accepting - the Mrs is African and doesn't want to get shot, hence why the US is off the table.
Pay needs to be decent (ish)
Holidays - ditto
Work culture - not oppressive like here
English speaking preferably but not a game changer
Doesn't have to be flashy or too developed. A bit of rural peace and quiet may be good.
Somewhere where I can put down roots.
The US is really nowhere near as bad as some folks perceive it, in regards to racial issues facing the average black person. A person who has expereinced MiddleEastern prejudices won't find anything comprable in the US, despite racial animosity increasing and re-emerging in the era of Trump.

A city like Portland Or. is a very tolerant place , full of outdoor activities, decent weather , fabulous scenery, a mecca for microbrewries, bookstores, cycling, and a culture where enviromental and social concern is very important.
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Old Feb 2nd 2020, 6:04 am
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Default Re: Where would you go....

Originally Posted by Boomhauer
The US is really nowhere near as bad as some folks perceive it, in regards to racial issues facing the average black person. A person who has expereinced MiddleEastern prejudices won't find anything comprable in the US, despite racial animosity increasing and re-emerging in the era of Trump.

A city like Portland Or. is a very tolerant place , full of outdoor activities, decent weather , fabulous scenery, a mecca for microbrewries, bookstores, cycling, and a culture where enviromental and social concern is very important.

A big drug and homelessness problem in Portland.
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Old Feb 3rd 2020, 1:16 am
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Default Re: Where would you go....

Originally Posted by nonthaburi
A big drug and homelessness problem in Portland.
Part of ther reason is the high cost of rent and real estate, because it is such a nice place to live, everyone wants to move there, espeically Californians. An attractive place is going to attract people from all over, so the incidence of homelessness will be much higher than a MidWestern or Southern city that don't make the list of top cities to live in. Portland has been near the top for many years now.

It's a very liberal progressive city, with fantastic public transport, which is sorely lacking in most US cities and towns.
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Old Feb 3rd 2020, 6:46 am
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Default Re: Where would you go....

Originally Posted by moneypenny20
Can't imagine your wife would find work in NZ. If you haven't already, post your query in the relevant country's Immi forums and see if you can even get in, let alone find work.
Not so sure about her not finding a role, however, we haven't looked so don't know.

Will post in the immi forum.

Visa for me should be relatively easy for NZ and OZ as Geo's are always on the preferred profession list in one way or another and I can do several. Also, the company I work for is huge (2nd biggest and ranked No.1) and so we have offices pretty much everywhere. I had the regional Geo lead over a while back and took him out for the day and we discussed a potential move and he said he'd take me anytime in NZ or Oz.

As for the Mrs, I haven't checked but strangely enough Namibian's (of which she is one) has favourable visit visa conditions in lots of places compared with the rest of Africa, and so I expect they are also more favourable for working visas too than other Africans. Obviously some decent research is needed tho.

Originally Posted by carcajou
Agree with moneypenny20. You need to start first with where you can get a visa. The Golden Age of Migration is over and it's not nearly as easy anymore, and that includes for places like NZ.

If you can get visas for both - Canada.

NZ can be a very difficult nut to crack, much moreso than places like Canada and Australia. Low wages + high cost of living, people who can be very insular towards non-NZ influences and a job market that can be clubby and very hard to break into. I highly recommend you post in the NZ forum your proposed circumstances and take on board the feedback you get. It really is a place you have to go into having thoroughly, thoroughly researched and with eyes wide open. The "lifestyle" thing looks awesome until you are having to budget for it on NZ wages, and the remoteness/isolation of the country and the impact that can have is something migrants continually underestimate. Singapore is 10 hours from Auckland and even Australia isn't that close. By the way, if you think NZ doesn't have big problems with race relations . . .

You will have higher wages in Canada, more job possibilities, it's much easier and cheaper to get to the UK, and you will have big American destinations at your disposal too. Toronto to New York is a 90 minute flight, Vancouver to Los Angeles is less than 3 hours.

So, just, think this one carefully, and make sure your wife is investigating possibilities in her field at the same time.
Noted.

Originally Posted by HiHo
NZ are screaming out for rail professionals now! for a big metro (tunnels) that might well get you in. The New Zealand's have all the events managers they need, they call them Sheppard's.
Noted.

Originally Posted by scot47
Go where the work is. That has always been the way !
The world is just crying out for a boom town! Fingers crossed its somewhere nice, tax free with lots of mountains.... (preferably not Saudi) ;-)

Originally Posted by christmasoompa
The annual leave in Canada doesn't have to be rubbish, my husband was on 30 days plus BH's, it just depends on how senior you are and how in demand your skills are as to how much you can negotiate.

But as said above, visa first, as that may just make the decision for you. No idea on NZ immigration but Canada is points based, and if you're older and/or don't have much post-secondary education, you may not score enough without a job offer and sponsorship.
We are 33 & 40, both with degrees in our respective fields, and by then I will be chartered... probably, if I can be arsed. As I say, however, getting a job offer in either is likely to be relatively easy for me.

Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH
I am in the US now. Your wife will be fine. African Americans are a big minority and there's growing numbers of African immigrants. But I'd think Canada might be even better if the background is specifically African. And easier to emigrate to.

I love NZ. But it is far. And very, very few people of African heritages.
Noted.

Originally Posted by Pongo
After 9 years in the Middle East I’ll be finished with full time employment....
Good for you..... and the point is?

Originally Posted by Boomhauer
The US is really nowhere near as bad as some folks perceive it, in regards to racial issues facing the average black person. A person who has expereinced MiddleEastern prejudices won't find anything comprable in the US, despite racial animosity increasing and re-emerging in the era of Trump.

A city like Portland Or. is a very tolerant place , full of outdoor activities, decent weather , fabulous scenery, a mecca for microbrewries, bookstores, cycling, and a culture where environmental and social concern is very important.
I do appreciate that the US is a HUGE place and so tarring everyone and everywhere with the same brunch is unfair...... it would certainly take some persuading.

Thanks all for the helpful comments. Obviously research is the next step but as we aren't exactly rushing out the door and i'm likely to pick up at least 2yrs extra work mid 2020 we aren't exactly in a rush. I'm just brain storming a bit, and the comments above, especially about NZ have been beneficial.

I'm still quite interested in Africa or Scandinavia too though.
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