Boomhauer

This is very much the case here in the US. The right wing media and populaist rhetoric will whine about welfare for the poor but do not apply the same enthusiastic criticism towards:
Farm subsidies for big Agro. and wealthy non farmers who scam the system Welfare for the super rich (bankers,insurance company heads)
The military industrial complex and all the money and lives spent for the benefit of companies like Exxon & Halliburton.

And the irony is that Halliburton has relocated its HQ to the UAE.

Meow

I am intrigued that no one has jumped on posters for using the term 'lower class' instead of working class or blue collar.

I have no real interest in someone's class, but there are certainly thousands of people who are quite happy to live their lives on state hand-outs with no intention of getting a job and contributing to society. I think a welfare system is a truly wonderful thing, but it's incredibly expensive and I am sicked by those who just take and never give.

typical

I'm not so sure there's much of a "working class" left in the UK (or the US for that matter), given the relative decline in industry (and within industry, of its labour intensity). I avoid the term "lower class" anyway.

I am also not sure it's so easy as saying people are quite happy to live on state hand-outs. Work is not easy to find, and now harder than ever, for those without decent skills. Expectations and aspirations are set young in people. Even for people with jobs, the jobs are often short-term and result in the "low wage, no wage" bounce.

The unemployment rate for 16-24 year olds in Britain was 20% in 2010. That's no start in life.

I'm sure there are more than a few cases of people living it up off the state, but for many many more the lack of decently paid work is a blight. (I also disagree that people without jobs aren't contributing to society, but that's another topic...)

Meow

At no point have I said that people who don't work aren't contributing to society. What I am clearly talking about is the so-called 'dependency culture'. Certainly there are people who cannot get decently paid work, but the fact is that there are groups of people who do not want to work. To deny that is disingenuous. Those are the people I have an issue with.

Victor Meldrew

So in what ways are unemployed people contributing to society?

typical

If your implication was not as I interpreted it, I apologise.

I don't think anyone does deny it - but in my opinion, keeping a focus on it is unreasonable, unhelpful, and takes us back down the rabbit hole of the "deserving" and "undeserving" poor. Implying that many on benefit are workshy scroungers (whether explicitly, or implicitly in terms of the volume of discussion) is just as disingenuous.

It reminds me of all the publicity over benefit fraud - when (illegal) tax evasion costs the country over three times as much.

typical

Know anyone looking after their sick husband/wife/parent?

scrubbedexpat141

As we've all discovered, I've got decent A-levels, v good GCSE's (who hasn't?) and chose not to go to university (sometimes wish I had).

Yet, I've found myself in Dubai at the age of 23 having done this 'job' for best part of 5 years. I disagree with the notion that if you're 16-24 then jobs are impossible to find, too hard to find, too difficult to get, too much competition etc. Just do something shit, work at it, become good at it, look for something else whilst doing it.

I walked around the local shopping centre (granted it's massive) with 150 CV's when i started college at 16 and went in and out of every shop until I got interviews. Got one interview and got the job. Done.

People my age and younger are just fudging lazy and expect it on a plate.

Rant over - more directed at the pandering situation of people saying life's too hard than you personally. Just think people need to grow up get on with it nowadays.

Meow

Exactly. Or working for a charity, or just generally being a decent human being and helping others.

Meow

That's very commendable Scamp. You clearly have a strong work ethic, but it does appear that some people are not brought up that way and find it all too much of an effort.

As our token youngster, what do you think could be done to change the mindsets of those who 'expect it on a plate'?

I am not being patronising. I'm genuinely interested.

Victor Meldrew

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure what you meant.

scrubbedexpat141

No idea to be honest, I've been lucky and been surrounded by this mentality from my parents. In a nutshell, neither have degrees, they owned a business and did well, in the first recession a couple of bad deals sent it under, we lost everything and they went bankrupt (1993) oh, and they split up. Since then, when we had **** all living with Mum, she grafted and now has a nice house, a car that i want, nice holidays etc. Dad went on and retired at 51 and won't work again after building / selling another business.

To me, that stuff comes from hard work, getting the odd break, dealing with setbacks and building from them. That's why I'll always work my nuts off and take everything on (as you've seen) a reasonable set of shoulders.

Long story over... and in answer to your question, I don't really know.

It's different because there are people less fortunate than me, that don't have parents that work hard, perhaps don't work at all, which makes getting off your arse a lot harder i think.

Generally you're a product of your environment, again being fortunate enough to go to an all boys grammar means you're surrounded with people that are clever and work hard...the local comprehensives were good schools but with a reasonable amount of idiots in each year group.

If my mum / dad had been on benefits and done nothing, I'd probably have just followed suit and had 3 kids by now.

To get people to work is unbelievable, you have to see the fruits before you get up and work i think, I think if you are in a council house where ambition can't be spelt let alone nurtured then you're facing an uphill battle. However people do come out of some horrible situations and make good of themselves, generally off their own back with zero support from the family. It's a really difficult question to answer and I'm definitely just rambling now.

Will give it some more thought because i don't see the charities and youth club type things as effective for anything other than providing a safer place for kids to hang out...so them as a means to encourage working hard and doing well at school may not be ultimately successful.

Got to be down to the individual.

Hard one to answer.

Victor Meldrew

Agree totally.

Having taught 11-16 year olds for 21 years in UK, I have seen how much they have been spoon fed through education and their parents to the point that they won't/can't do things for themselves.

There are however lots of independant, driven young people in the UK (I have one renting a room in my UK house - 22, has her driving licence, in a good job, and very independant).

However I would say the majority (or a large minority) expect things to just happen with little input from themselves.

Baah Humbug!!

scrubbedexpat141

I've just re read my post, after posting it and I've made myself sound like a bit of a posh twat. I'm not really, I don't mean to be patronising about people who come from different upbringings at all. Just making comment that some are harder than others, and if I was in a different situation I might not have been the same = product of environment I think.

Victor Meldrew

I think the key thing/word in all of this is 'Parents'.

If you are brought up with a good work ethic and half decent values then you are likely to follow suit.