And so it begins...
 

Yesterday was 19-01-2017 AD. Today is 0-00-0000 PR (POST REALITY)

What worries me a lot more is the kind of sociological impact that can occur over time that scars a society for much longer. I look at Pakistan's history and people who came of age well after Zia ul Haq was dead, but they are who I call 'Generation Zia' -- a whole new crop for whom the discourse has been so significantly altered from what it was before he enforced his ideas of religion and state, that they don't even realize that their perspectives and attitudes would have been alien to the generation before them. It is actually frighteningly easy to undo decades of enlightenment, and frighteningly difficult to undo four years of the opposite.

Btw I am willing to bet money that he is going to do all in his power to get his daughter Ivanka elected as the next president. Bets anyone?

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Going to be interesting when Trump moves the US embassy to Jerusalem.

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Are they all Imran Khan voters ? :eek:

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I feel sorry for those who benefited from Obamacare.

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I'm not worried about Trump. Why should we be? If he screws up anyone, it'll be the Americans. I don't see him wanting to get involved in overseas ventures as he heavily criticised both the Iraq war and Obama's interventions.

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you know you really arent that far off from the Bulls Eye right now mate ;)

Well I agree with only part of that statement. America has one of the largest Armies in the world and has been known to 'police' other regions before. What is to stop them now from doing so more aggressively now that they have an the poster child for the movie 'Idiocracy' leading them?

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What is extraordinary is that people who are benefiting from the Affordable Care Act have voted to get rid of Obamacare not realising it's the same thing. Turkeys voting for Christmas... :rolleyes:

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I don't know the ins and outs, just the principles behind it, which I've always struggled to understand the genuine negatives of. Still, Obama shouldn't be ashamed of this;

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/news/specia...urance_976.png

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It is far from perfect, in part as so many senators and congressmen opposed it, but it's a start. I just find it extraordinary that so many Americans do not want their fellow citizens to have access to decent and affordable health care.

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Is it peculiar that Americans don't have a proper health care system? Or perhaps it's not? Americans are.... Americans ;)

My albeit brief understanding of the situation is that while Obama brought about some sort of greater access to health care, the cost of health care payments or premiums went up by a lot for many Americans in the same time period and that's been blamed on Obamacare. And those were the Trump voters.

As an American once explained to me, don't underestimate how much Americans despise their own poor. There's an ingrained sentiment that if you're poor, it's your fault and as such you deserve your circumstances.

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universal insurance for all will raise the costs for everyone... unless the regulator, procurer and insurer are the same person (i.e. like the NHS).

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I don't disagree but it's still the right thing to do. The increases have apparently not been massive and it's part of the costs and thus benefit of society.

The USA claims to be the greatest country in the world yet so many are in poverty, the possibility of healthcare for all is about to be removed, it has no federal maternity leave/pay and the more. Seems odd that so many cannot see the cognitive dissonance.

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As I say, I don't know anywhere near enough about it other than the basics, so can't really comment. But it's not universally hated, nor universally adored....so isn't it just like anything applied to a whole country?

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well, if you can't afford it - as many middle-class & poor can't, then they don't want it.

People are often willing to sacrifice health for money or other priorities... strangely but it is true. If people didn't they wouldn't eat cheap junk food in order to save money for make-up/cars etc.

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You've made a point here that I think others are missing a bit which is the recalibration of what is acceptable and "normal" that appears to be taking place. Trump and his minions are institutionalising a whole suite of behaviours that would have been considered completely unacceptable before. Much as I am concerned about the evisceration of climate change mitigation, civil rights and public access to healthcare (I have friends and family in the US likely to be affected) that is already underway, I am scared sh*tless about the aggressive assault on facts and reality.

Trump himself tweeted about "record" crowds at his inauguration when all independent evidence including photos and reports of users on the DC metro indicate his event had much lower crowds than for either of Obama's inaugurations - and even lower than W's. Then his press secretary attacked the media yesterday for lying about inauguration crowds when in fact they were simply reporting factually. Again the unsupported line of "record crowds" was trotted out. The strategy seems to be to dismiss and discredit fact based reporting as the province of the lying, biased "mainstream media". This then means that facts are simply one more piece of noise contesting the airspace with propaganda and bullsh*t. Basically, the truth is whatever the Trump administration wants it to be.

And people are bleating about giving Trump "a chance" and "getting over" Hillary's loss. But that's not the point. This has to be challenged before it becomes the new norm but I fear greatly that respectable news organisations are letting themselves be bullied into going along with this agenda. Somewhere Goebbels and Potemkin are raising a toast in admiration of the work of Kevin Bannon....

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:blah:

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Regarding the crowds CNN have released a gigapixel photo which appears to contradict the photos showing large gaps in the crowd

Gigapixel: The inauguration of Donald Trump

You can sort of understand why his administration is being so aggressive towards the press that a week earlier released a slew of unsubstantiated claims that were designed to destroy his reputation. Claims which now seem to be largely forgotten due to lack of evidence. A classic LBJ inspired move it would seem

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If you think about it, let's say 4 million over all decided to protest across the US. Trump wanted to get the economy moving and create more business activity.

How much do you think they all spent making signs from a hobby store, air fare, Hotel, car rental, gas, bus charter, all those hats they were wearing, food and drink?

They beat themselves over hate, yet more money was transacted to businesses within the first 24 hours of his presidency than in any other, due to him just being the President.

Figure the average spent has to be between $25-$100.... Times 4 million....Hmmm. @ $25 a pop that's between $100million minimum and over $400 million

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Say that to my friend, a single mother in her late 40s with a kid of 14, her government job (she works in a water processing plant in Texas), was cut by 15% cos they couldn't afford all the staff (but managed to spend a few hundred million on a swimming pool which no-one uses - I wonder who got the contract to build it), and her healthcare was doubled to $500 or so a month - she earns $1,600 after deductions but prior to Obamacare.

Obama created a perfect storm for the "deplorables" to rise up and say "We've had enough".

They only have themselves to blame.

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CNN< the Clinton News Network, funny how they are licking trump's arse (ass) too....

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Like it! If he had planned it that way, even better. Anyway, (not that we have any choice of course) let's give the chap a chance.

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I'm sure the US was thrilled with the 0.000555% boost this gave their GDP....when as a nation it's economy is capable of contributing roughly $34,246,575 a minute.

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That figure takes no account of the multiplier effect.........struggling to remember A level economics from long ago.
But anyway, give the man a chance.
We should be encouraged that his first foreign invitee is Theresa May: all help in strengthening the perception of GB's position in the Brexit negotiations gratefully received.

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I think it depends on where that money goes or what it's used for and how much is taken out (savings / tax). I think.

Huge positive for the UK. We need all the help we can get at the moment I feel.

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A truly Trumplistic analysis....

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Makes a change from the liberal luvvies, doesn't it.

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Well, he does have a point, you must admit. It did add a bit of economic stimulus. :sneaky:

I think my favourite quote of the women's march was:

'Trump's only been president for two days but he's already managed to get a million shrews off their fat arses and start exercising! I love this man!' :tape:

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assuming these people were doing nothing else and there was no opportunity cost, of course - more likely it was negative.

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And before anyone gets their knickers in a twist I had no problems with the march. Know a few people who participated both in the US and the one in London. It was important to them, it made them happy, it's part of the democratic world we live in. And it's a good reminder to Trump that he has opposition.

(whether Trump will notice or that it will be forgotten this time next week is a different story).

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Hmm. It was on a Friday. They could have been having brunch or shopping instead? Possibly.

On the other hand, it is America so it's more likely they would have wasted the day watching TV ;)

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Not sure how it could have been negative but yes, opportunity cost such as saving or spending on other items would depend upon marginal propensity to consume (there, that's the end of my recall of a lecture room in 197X)

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:goodpost:
btw I do know the Kevin Bannon reference but despite all of my 'googling', couldnt get the Goebbels and Potemkin thing :unsure:

Soooooo trump is a good president because for the next 4 years he will incite more and more of these economic ventures and end up being the ultimate Saviour? :eek:

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That's a good point actually. I hadn't thought of it in a positive, just the negative but I think that's Trump's view a lot of the time that he's still fighting these folk.

Although, hopefully changing as I think he tweeted some shit about the marches and then tweeted something about it being their democratic right and was much more positive.

So perhaps Donald the Reasonable may prevail?

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There is no such thing as Donald the Reasonable.

The Donald will always be loud, bombastic, flamboyant, egoistical. I think he thrives out of taking the mick out of his enemies and doesn't really care what others think of it or how he does it.

I also don't think he has a real clue as to what to do beyond a vague concept of the right thing to do. My guess is that he will focus on a handful of key initiatives and shout his way into making them happen. And it may be a strategy that works :unsure:

I also think all the fears that he'll turn back the clock on various so-called 'rights' are unfounded (see comment above about taking the mick). Prior the past year he's never shown any interest in social issues and his life history is anything but socially conservative or religious (he is potentially the most secular and culturally indifferent president the Americans have ever had). But his indifference goes both ways. He's not going to support attempts at rebranding certain groups as deserving of special attention or protection and will openly mock attempts to do so. I don't think it's because he has any particular dislike or contempt of certain ethnicity or gender or sexuality, but his attitude his whole life has pretty much been: 'shut up, stop whinging and go out there and do it!'

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Right. A lot of this is fairly acceptable and agreeable, if it were black and white. I just don't think The Donald is.

Being flamboyant and egotistical is excellent when presenting The Apprentice.
Being clueless bar vague conceptual ideas is great when presenting The Apprentice or investing money in a personal enterprise.

But as the leader of the New World?
Will it work?
Will there be a balance struck?
Will it be an embarrassing presidency of nothing, or will it flourish economically etc?

There are question marks over his tolerances for other 'groups' - take his comments about Muslims and banning them 'until they can figure this out'. I mean, if that's a joke it's pretty shit, if it was serious and people want him to be held accountable for it being part of the reason they voted for him then what the ****? Is that sort of sweeping intolerance really anything other than a nasty negative?

Like Brexit, it's happening / happened now. I'm all for knuckling down and getting on (if I were an American), I hold reservation on The Donald and don't think, from what he was saying in his campaigns that he is a good leader or in fact person if that's how he thinks.
However, he's POTUS now and if he's keen to develop the 'special relationship' then great, if he leads prosperity in the US then it can rub off on us, great.

Let's not forget, I sit right of centre and find him cringe-worthy and extreme in some of his views.
True liberal folk must be marching in their millions.........

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Hopefully he'll put decent advisers around him and they will be basically run the US with Trump as the figurehead who shouts a lot.

If he gets it done and sorts out the mess that is the USA, and does put America first - in the same way that China puts China first, Japan, South Korea etc. Sadly Britain first isn't the best statement but surely the population of every country should put there country first?

Surely?

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So a woman with an opinion is a shrew? Way to go with the Trump style misogyny.

:yawn:

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A woman without a sense of humour is probably a shrew :p

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I agree that the ur-Trump, while a vulgar ignoramus and serial assaulter of women, is actually as socially liberal and irreligious a candidate as ever assumed high office in the US. However, the version of Trump that got elected used a number of calculated right-wing strategies right out of the Breitbart playbook starting with the ultra-racist birther nonsense, which created his political base in the Republican party. He buit on this with all sorts of barely coded anti-Semitic, anti-immigrant, sexist and racist dog-whistles during the election campaign, which were critical to securing his constituency, both in the Republican primaries and in the general election.

This stimulated the high turn-out of low-education voters in whiter-than-average states in the upper Mid-west that tipped him over the edge in the electoral college (check the exit polls). However, still most of his vote came from the 35-40% of Americans that will always vote Republican no matter who the candidate is. That includes the (let's be frank, racist) white south and more widely spread evangelical vote as well as the club-for-growth rapacious deregulators and science deniers. He continues to have to keep all of these rabid dogs fed with red meat - note the striking number of specifically Christian references in his (mercifully short) inaugural address.

And to those who think, "oh, he'll get good people around him and do the right thing", I say WAKE THE F**K UP and see who he has appointed to those critical positions. If you don't know who Kevin Bannon is (though Beekeeper does) then you better bloody find out quickly. He is the most significant voice in Trump's ear, more even than Kellyanne "alternate facts" Conway.

Bannon had a knife-edge strategy to get Trump elected that worked; just! They had only one shot and had to run the table - and they did it. A lot of luck was involved (bad weather in Milwaukee and Detroit, a transport strike in Philadelphia - low turnout in those big cities handed 3 critical states to Trump by a whisker); a lot of Republican chicanery with voter-suppression initiatives in locally Republican-controlled states (most significantly WI, MI, OH, IA PA, NC and FL, all of which flipped blue to red); FBI Director Comey's ham-handed (I'm being charitable) interference; the drip-drip of Putin-enabled wikileaks email releases making "Hillary's email" an issue without many voters really understanding the issue at all. It all came together in a perfect storm which will be almost impossible to repeat. Hillary won the popular vote by a bigger number and percentage than W beat Kerry in 2004, only slightly less in % terms (and more in actual votes) than Leave's Brexit margin in the UK - think about that! And yet Trump still won the election because of how Bannon's strategy worked out in the electoral college.

That's why there will be no nice and reasonable Trump. He has to keep that riled-up constituency with a permanent hard-on so they will turn out for him next time again because he knows that he turns off most voters. That's why he has the most hard-right cabinet of (incompetent) extremists in American history. That's why his inaugural address was not a unifying rallying call to the nation (let alone the world) but a crude partisan shout-out to the alt-right and paleo-cons and theo-cons and all the other assorted mongrel nasties. That's why he issued those spiteful executive orders in his first hour to gut voting and civil rights, support for mitigation of climate-change and affordable health-care.

Judge him by his actions: his actions so far have vindicated the most depressing and alarming speculation about how his presidency would unfold. Be afraid, be very afraid....