mikewot

Nah! The fishie goes off into lala land and has had his wrist slapped by Sue for it, so any more burbling and I delete it.

scrubbedexpat141

Yes, agree with your summary.

Yes, we can sit and judge. We do it expertly. What would be more useful is to help, but I fear given previous and current conflicts it will be akin to raking water uphill.

The world is a different place to when Europe 'grew up'. It might take longer / be quicker / be easier / be harder for nations/regions to shed archaic rules etc.

All that aside, who are we to interfere? There is much to be said for leading by example. But if people don't want a model similar to that of Western Europe's and prefer their own way, why should we force our own attitudes and beliefs upon them?

I end up thinking we should just leave it be. But then the shit going on and killing of innocent civilians makes me think it's inhumane to just let idiots kill the general public. Then do we step in? Where does it stop? Where does it restart?

****ing nightmare. Glad I'm not PM.

norsk

One of my friends is adamant that if the Americans, British, French (and any other countries that have a military presence here) pull out permanently including shutting down bases from the gulf and surrounding areas the region will heal itself....

My friend is European and yes, I think he is nuts! I think there would be carnage (although not straight away).

What do you guys think would happen?

Disclaimer:
I am not by any means saying that the presence of these armies is a good thing and they have more than likely made things a lot worse than they potentially would have been if the region had been left alone from the start, but what is done is done and I cannot change the past.

mikewot

How far back do you go? The artificial divisions since the end of the Ottoman empire? Or are we simply talking about GW1/2 etc. etc?
If only GW1 period then I think the bloodletting will still have taken place and I doubt there will be any healing for a long long time, if ever.

norsk

That's what I'm saying. You cannot change the past, but if the all the foreign armies left the region tomorrow what would happen in the future?

britexpat76

mikewot

Now Pandoras box is open, in particular Sunni versis Shi'ite, they'll kill each other until one tribe is top dog. As Scamps says should we just sit back and let them? I think it is a moral question and I am tempted to say just let them get on with it but my conscience wouldn't allow it.

norsk

Yep. And also I wonder who would invade who first. I mean a tiny, hyper-rich country like Qatar would be like a sitting duck wouldn't it?

scrubbedexpat141

Technically it's none of our business, but that doesn't wash when people are being killed for no reason. Completely ****ed up situation where Joe and Jane Average just suffer.

Bahtatboy

Apart from those lines we drew in the sand.

shiva

last time the saudi were shooting at the uae was in the 60's, the last time the uae was shooting at qatar was last week when they bombed people supported by qatar in libya in a proxy war being fought alongside the egyptians.
i think everybody is way way too sensitive and paranoid and the have guns lots and lots of them

i think it wouldnt be long until they started shooting and i think it wouldnt be too long after that that the shooting stopped because all the armies suddenly vanish as they realise there is real danger of chipping a nail and having to do some work

Irishbeekeeper

Nah, it would be mayhem if the armies left.
Israel would be the first to invade Syria and Lebanon in my opinion or the Syria / Iran / Iraq block would try and attack Israel, either or.

The wahabs I think now feel that they have stirred the hornets nest by
a. Allowing the septics to do what they did in Iraq
b. Funding the Sunnis in Syria which eventually spilled over (had to) into Iraq
c. Superimposing a sectarian war in the middle east, where in fact there really wasnt one to begin with. I mean, sure there were tensions, but most were brought on by the Shias and Sunnis grinding gears in Iraq and that too was quite a lot under control within Iraq's borders.

scrubbedexpat141

Exactly.

If you tickle the lips with your japs eye, you may as well stick the whole thing in. You've ****ed it already.

britexpat76

Ain't that the truth.

Bahtatboy

Agreed, although I think there would be a very marked divide between those countries who could muster an effective army (ie those who already have, although I use the term effective loosely), and those who couldn't. For all the top brass having attended Sandhurst there'd be a great number of hoarse voices...