Rodney King dead at 47
Jun 18th 2012, 8:12 pm
#31
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Re: Rodney King dead at 47
I think it's a bit more grey than that. He was hardly a saint to begin with and managed to get in trouble with the law before and after the beating incident.
Yes it was a good thing that the LAPD were called to task after the riots and things have changed...but the evidence still points to King being a toerag and a ruffian, not an upstanding member of the community.
In other words he followed trouble as much as it followed him.
N.
Yes it was a good thing that the LAPD were called to task after the riots and things have changed...but the evidence still points to King being a toerag and a ruffian, not an upstanding member of the community.
In other words he followed trouble as much as it followed him.
N.
Jun 18th 2012, 8:28 pm
#32
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Re: Rodney King dead at 47
I guess we all have personal views on this and as always we must respect those that differ from our own
I like ID cards but groups in the UK dislike the idea. I think its ok to check that a Hispanic in an area where there are lots of illeagal Hispanics is entitled to be there and what harm does a quick check do ?
I also thought that it was OK in the good old days for the Met to be able to stop dodgy looking black guys on SUS because apparently lots of drug trafficking or abuse in the capital was carried out dodgy looking black guys. If you are wearing your rastafarian uniform and walking like you are stoned out of your mind; was it unreasonable to stop them on SUS ? Of course the rights chappies got up in the arms about it and racial profiling was abandoned by the Met so as to be PC but it is just hiding from yet another uncomfortable truth
One that keeps making me smile is that the rights groups are up in arms that there is a disproportional amount of blacks in British prisons.
Is it because a disproportional amount of blacks are involved in illegal activities ?
OR
Is it because a disproportional amount of blacks are not very good at undertaking illegal activities ?
Who knows ?
I like ID cards but groups in the UK dislike the idea. I think its ok to check that a Hispanic in an area where there are lots of illeagal Hispanics is entitled to be there and what harm does a quick check do ?
I also thought that it was OK in the good old days for the Met to be able to stop dodgy looking black guys on SUS because apparently lots of drug trafficking or abuse in the capital was carried out dodgy looking black guys. If you are wearing your rastafarian uniform and walking like you are stoned out of your mind; was it unreasonable to stop them on SUS ? Of course the rights chappies got up in the arms about it and racial profiling was abandoned by the Met so as to be PC but it is just hiding from yet another uncomfortable truth
One that keeps making me smile is that the rights groups are up in arms that there is a disproportional amount of blacks in British prisons.
Is it because a disproportional amount of blacks are involved in illegal activities ?
OR
Is it because a disproportional amount of blacks are not very good at undertaking illegal activities ?
Who knows ?
I've never understood why someone innocent would object to helping the police by providing basic information like their identity, where they are going and what they are up to.
Then again political correctness doesn't like the idea that a lot of street crime is disproportionately committed by black and sub-continent descent (I refuse to use the term Asian because it's far too broad) youth in the UK. Quite sad really because you can't solve problems by refusing to acknowledge facts pertaining to the problem - in this case that some communities have serious issues - likely because we have different communities in the first place drawn up on racial and religious lines instead of full integration and assimilation.
N.
Jun 18th 2012, 8:35 pm
#33
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Re: Rodney King dead at 47
This isn't really a liberal issue exclusively, it is very much a libertarian issue too. I approach this from the libertarian mindset.
Jun 18th 2012, 9:25 pm
#34
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Re: Rodney King dead at 47
Theres a big difference between stopping an individual because he/she matches the description of a suspect and stopping all people of a certain ethnicity because some people of said ethnicity have committed a crime (in this case illegal entry into the US)
This isn't really a liberal issue exclusively, it is very much a libertarian issue too. I approach this from the libertarian mindset.
This isn't really a liberal issue exclusively, it is very much a libertarian issue too. I approach this from the libertarian mindset.
It still boils down to legal and proper people shouldn't take offense at being asked for ID or a few basic questions by the police. Doesn't really matter why either...that's the job of the police.
How is this a libertarian issue? Most Libertarians are very big on law and order...just not on big government (which would fit politicians telling the police to target whites and blacks equally when looking for illegal mexicans
) N.
Jun 18th 2012, 10:15 pm
#35
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Re: Rodney King dead at 47
I've never heard of an entire ethnic group being stopped because some people have misbehaved....
It still boils down to legal and proper people shouldn't take offense at being asked for ID or a few basic questions by the police. Doesn't really matter why either...that's the job of the police.
How is this a libertarian issue? Most Libertarians are very big on law and order...just not on big government (which would fit politicians telling the police to target whites and blacks equally when looking for illegal mexicans)
N.
It still boils down to legal and proper people shouldn't take offense at being asked for ID or a few basic questions by the police. Doesn't really matter why either...that's the job of the police.
How is this a libertarian issue? Most Libertarians are very big on law and order...just not on big government (which would fit politicians telling the police to target whites and blacks equally when looking for illegal mexicans
) N.
Jun 19th 2012, 12:13 am
#37
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Posts: 4,643
Re: Rodney King dead at 47
I've never heard of an entire ethnic group being stopped because some people have misbehaved....
It still boils down to legal and proper people shouldn't take offense at being asked for ID or a few basic questions by the police. Doesn't really matter why either...that's the job of the police.
How is this a libertarian issue? Most Libertarians are very big on law and order...just not on big government (which would fit politicians telling the police to target whites and blacks equally when looking for illegal mexicans)
N.
It still boils down to legal and proper people shouldn't take offense at being asked for ID or a few basic questions by the police. Doesn't really matter why either...that's the job of the police.
How is this a libertarian issue? Most Libertarians are very big on law and order...just not on big government (which would fit politicians telling the police to target whites and blacks equally when looking for illegal mexicans
) N.
People shouldn't have to prove anything if they have not committed a crime. Stopping random people is authoritarian and police state tactics. How would you feel if you and those who looked like you were constantly pulled over or stopped by police despite not doing anything illegal. This is exactly how the situation will pan out if Arizona police are allowed to stop person simply because they are Hispanic.
Libertarian are against government intrusion and any law that infringes on one's right to liberty and free expression. A law such as this infringes one's liberty and freedom.
It doesn't matter that most illegals are Mexican, what matters it that there are significant number of Americans who are of Mexican descent and thus look very similar to illegals. Therese Americans shouldn't have to be harassed by the government because of their ethnicity. If the government was targetting all White males because some White males are involved in anti government activity, there would be a huge backlash.
Jun 19th 2012, 1:03 am
#38
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Re: Rodney King dead at 47
I think handy Mani of american cartoon fame looks decidedly illegal. I think that's the trouble, all mexicans look dodgy even the cartoon characters.
Must be a nightmare for the good folks of Arizona.
Still at current breeding rates both the whites and blacks of the USA will soon be overtaken by the Hispanics. Wonder what the star spangled banner sounds like in Spanish ?
Must be a nightmare for the good folks of Arizona.
Still at current breeding rates both the whites and blacks of the USA will soon be overtaken by the Hispanics. Wonder what the star spangled banner sounds like in Spanish ?
Jun 19th 2012, 1:24 am
#39
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Re: Rodney King dead at 47
Stopping Hispanics/Latinos is stopping an entire ethnic group, just because most illegals tend to be Hispanic.
People shouldn't have to prove anything if they have not committed a crime. Stopping random people is authoritarian and police state tactics. How would you feel if you and those who looked like you were constantly pulled over or stopped by police despite not doing anything illegal. This is exactly how the situation will pan out if Arizona police are allowed to stop person simply because they are Hispanic.
Libertarian are against government intrusion and any law that infringes on one's right to liberty and free expression. A law such as this infringes one's liberty and freedom.
It doesn't matter that most illegals are Mexican, what matters it that there are significant number of Americans who are of Mexican descent and thus look very similar to illegals. Therese Americans shouldn't have to be harassed by the government because of their ethnicity. If the government was targetting all White males because some White males are involved in anti government activity, there would be a huge backlash.
People shouldn't have to prove anything if they have not committed a crime. Stopping random people is authoritarian and police state tactics. How would you feel if you and those who looked like you were constantly pulled over or stopped by police despite not doing anything illegal. This is exactly how the situation will pan out if Arizona police are allowed to stop person simply because they are Hispanic.
Libertarian are against government intrusion and any law that infringes on one's right to liberty and free expression. A law such as this infringes one's liberty and freedom.
It doesn't matter that most illegals are Mexican, what matters it that there are significant number of Americans who are of Mexican descent and thus look very similar to illegals. Therese Americans shouldn't have to be harassed by the government because of their ethnicity. If the government was targetting all White males because some White males are involved in anti government activity, there would be a huge backlash.
Just out of curiosity: Let's say there had just been a violent robbery and eye witnesses described the perpetrator as being a hispanic male who drove off. Is it then wrong for the police to look for and stop hispanic males?
You can replace 'hispanic male' which black female/Chinese man/Ginger man/etc if you prefer.
Jun 19th 2012, 1:51 am
#40
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Re: Rodney King dead at 47
Just out of curiosity: Let's say there had just been a violent robbery and eye witnesses described the perpetrator as being a hispanic male who drove off. Is it then wrong for the police to look for and stop hispanic males?
You can replace 'hispanic male' which black female/Chinese man/Ginger man/etc if you prefer.
You can replace 'hispanic male' which black female/Chinese man/Ginger man/etc if you prefer.
In the case of Az profiling, all Hispanics are subject to being stopped, and not just specific individuals who fit the description of a criminal . A Hispanic is stopped just for being Hispanic.
Jun 19th 2012, 3:36 am
#41
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Re: Rodney King dead at 47
If police stop Hispanic males *in the vicinity* of the crime matching the description or whos vehicle matches the description then it would be understandable but if they end up stopping all Hispnaic males all over the city/town it is not acceptable.
In the case of Az profiling, all Hispanics are subject to being stopped, and not just specific individuals who fit the description of a criminal . A Hispanic is stopped just for being Hispanic.
In the case of Az profiling, all Hispanics are subject to being stopped, and not just specific individuals who fit the description of a criminal . A Hispanic is stopped just for being Hispanic.
Jun 19th 2012, 9:27 am
#43
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Re: Rodney King dead at 47
Scenario: Financial scam on the scale of that committed by Bernie Madoff and the Enron group is being carried out throughout the Gulf. The suspects, like those of the aforementioned criminals are of Western origin. Arab response: profile all Western expats. Check their personal belongings at and outside of work. Monitor and harass them all until such crimes come to a halt. They are known for perpetrating such acts after all!
Expat's response: Hmmm, not sure if I want to stay in the gulf anymore.
Alternatively: Big deal, I don't care if they search my entire house or if my coworkers give me dirty looks. I'm innocent, have nothing to hide, and consent to this type of search and profiling for the sake of justice.
Expat's response: Hmmm, not sure if I want to stay in the gulf anymore.
Alternatively: Big deal, I don't care if they search my entire house or if my coworkers give me dirty looks. I'm innocent, have nothing to hide, and consent to this type of search and profiling for the sake of justice.
Last edited by Jamworld; Jun 19th 2012 at 9:32 am.
Jun 19th 2012, 4:33 pm
#44
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Posts: 2,109
Re: Rodney King dead at 47
Scenario: Financial scam on the scale of that committed by Bernie Madoff and the Enron group is being carried out throughout the Gulf. The suspects, like those of the aforementioned criminals are of Western origin. Arab response: profile all Western expats. Check their personal belongings at and outside of work. Monitor and harass them all until such crimes come to a halt. They are known for perpetrating such acts after all!
Expat's response: Hmmm, not sure if I want to stay in the gulf anymore.
Alternatively: Big deal, I don't care if they search my entire house or if my coworkers give me dirty looks. I'm innocent, have nothing to hide, and consent to this type of search and profiling for the sake of justice.
Expat's response: Hmmm, not sure if I want to stay in the gulf anymore.
Alternatively: Big deal, I don't care if they search my entire house or if my coworkers give me dirty looks. I'm innocent, have nothing to hide, and consent to this type of search and profiling for the sake of justice.
Jun 20th 2012, 6:27 pm
#45
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Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,373
Re: Rodney King dead at 47
Stopping Hispanics/Latinos is stopping an entire ethnic group, just because most illegals tend to be Hispanic.
People shouldn't have to prove anything if they have not committed a crime. Stopping random people is authoritarian and police state tactics. How would you feel if you and those who looked like you were constantly pulled over or stopped by police despite not doing anything illegal. This is exactly how the situation will pan out if Arizona police are allowed to stop person simply because they are Hispanic.
Libertarian are against government intrusion and any law that infringes on one's right to liberty and free expression. A law such as this infringes one's liberty and freedom.
It doesn't matter that most illegals are Mexican, what matters it that there are significant number of Americans who are of Mexican descent and thus look very similar to illegals. Therese Americans shouldn't have to be harassed by the government because of their ethnicity. If the government was targetting all White males because some White males are involved in anti government activity, there would be a huge backlash.
People shouldn't have to prove anything if they have not committed a crime. Stopping random people is authoritarian and police state tactics. How would you feel if you and those who looked like you were constantly pulled over or stopped by police despite not doing anything illegal. This is exactly how the situation will pan out if Arizona police are allowed to stop person simply because they are Hispanic.
Libertarian are against government intrusion and any law that infringes on one's right to liberty and free expression. A law such as this infringes one's liberty and freedom.
It doesn't matter that most illegals are Mexican, what matters it that there are significant number of Americans who are of Mexican descent and thus look very similar to illegals. Therese Americans shouldn't have to be harassed by the government because of their ethnicity. If the government was targetting all White males because some White males are involved in anti government activity, there would be a huge backlash.
Libertarians are not against law and order, they are against legislation giving governments more power to dictate behaviour, belief and morality to people (the maxim of Libertarianism is that you should be able to do what you like as long as it causes no physical or financial harm to others). You'll find most Libertarians quite happy to co-operate with the Police in their investigations.
I don't think anyone is advocating strip searching every single person of a particular ethnic group - that's ridiculous. Detecting illegals is very easy - just ask them for proper ID...that takes a minute and won't bother any legal resident or citizen just because they are the same ethnicity of most of the illegals.
N.
