MacScot

Oops...Activities should read activists !

Norm_uk

They claim there are around 1.1 billion Muslims in the world.

Assuming there are only .1% extremists who are active terrorists and 1% who actively support terrorism that means we are left with more people than the the population of Germany involved in Islamic Terrorism worldwide...and we're not including the silent supporters of terrorism in that figure.

Also, if terrorism is somehow related to western foreign policy and Israel etc I would question the moral validity of Islam as a creed as we have yet to see Jews blowing up German civilians, or Christians nuking Mecca for the repeated Islamic invasions of Europe (including the continued occupation of Constantinople, Cyprus and Kosovo etc) - and when you think about it, they lost 6 million...The Palestinians claim Israel commits genocide on them yet their population has grown by 30% over the past few years

N.

benzonar

So you know for a fact that he was performing a non-violent protest, or might he have been throwing rocks and attacking construction workers as was reported over two weeks ago.


Yep the wall that I'm sure the majority of Israeli's would rather not have considering the problems that come with it. Unfortunately Palestinians feel the need to strap on explosives and blow themselves up amongst Israeli civilians. The wall appears to be working as the terrorists now are having to use rockets and construction equipment to kill Israelis on a daily basis.

That is great news, Israel as a legitimate nation needs to be open and be aware of any abuses carried out in its name. Just a pity the same will never happen with regards to the Palestinians or Hezbollah. Let's get some perspective, a Palestinian is captured and a soldier fires a shot behind him to scare him, unfortunately it hits his big toe. There is international outrage.

Hezbollah capture some Israeli soldiers, torture them, kill them and mutilate the bodies and nothing is said. In fact it is overshadowed by mass jubilation on the streets of Beirut because a child murderer is released.

I've heard both sides, in fact I've lived amongst it in both Israel and the West Bank back in the mid-1990s. The problem is self perpetuating and tbh will never be resolved unless the Palestinians get into a position of power and follow through on their threat of "driving the Jews into the sea".

MacScot

No, I don't know the exact circumstance of his arrest and neither do you, I suspect. My point was after what he has gone through (arrest and brutalisation) he's unlikely to go back to "rioting" and more likely peacefully demonstrate to avoid a repeat arrest...learnt his lesson the hard way if he was throwing stones.


I can understand why the Israelis are putting up these walls for security reasons. You can see the extensive wall network protecting the approximate 1967 border in the attached figure, which was a cease fire line from two decades earlier and not drawn as a 'permanent frontier.' Any future peace agreement will, I am sure, allow for Israel to withdraw to internationally recognised 'secure' borders' in line with UN Security Council Resolution 242. However, many of the walls are there to protect Israeli settlements (also shown in the figure). I don't know why there are so many settlements as the acquisition of territory by war, regardless of who started it, is inadmissible (as in UN SC Resolution 242).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...tbankjan06.jpg



Agree that Palestinians and Hezbollah also need to be open and be aware of abuses...but unlikely to happen under current circumstances. Though, disagree with your contention that the soldier fired "a shot behind him to scare him, unfortunately it hits his big toe". Look at the video clip again...he aims carefully from about 1 m away...certainly not behind him but deliberate targetting of his foot. He's a soldier..so gets plenty of firing practice. Anyway, the military court case will decide on that one. Also, it wasn't so much 'international outrage' but the real outrage emanating from the Israeli Defence Force minister and Israeli Government that their soldiers should not behave in that way.

Yes, the capture and killing of the two Israeli soldiers and return of their bodies was repugnant as was the rejoicing of the child murderer as a hero. No question about it. However, the 'rejoicing' on the first day gave way to mourning for the 200 bodies returned by Israel to Palestinian families, which followed the earlier mourning by the Israeli families of the two soldiers killed. That's the inevitable consequence of war...people die.

The problem seems to be self perpetuating by the settlements and non-witdrawal of Israeli forces from occupied lands. If peace does come about and Israel gets it secure borders...what happens to all these settlements in the West Bank, which will become Palestine?. Do the inhabitants become Palestinians by naturalisation or will they return to Israel? I know the Israelis and Palestininas can live peacefully together as about 30 per cent of Israel's population are Palestinians and Arabic is the second language in Israel (that also came up in one of the BE Monday night quizzes).

Anyway, I hope it is all sorted out soon and that peace can be secured.

benzonar

The soldier was released earlier today. He claimed he thought his commanding officer had said "Shoot him, shoot him". Commanding officer said not and that the soldier was confused but the CO took responsibility.

As to self perpetuating, the Palestinian education system carries a lot of blame if the official textbooks are anything to go by. If you want peace you need to start with the children.

Settlements are complicated, but Israel does have a history of pulling back from them. All of those in the Sinai were abandoned as well as those in the Gaza strip.

Most of the settlements are actually built using finance from US evangelical messianic christian organisations concerned with the idea of rapture. Too much gerin oil all round methinks.