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A question for you
If you knew that establishments (shop, restaurants or companies generally) treated their staff poorly, would it put you off giving them your custom? Would you avoid going there?
I can't really name places for legal reasons (although I know quite a few and I am sure you do too) but am generally curious about the bored's (sic) take on this. |
Re: A question for you
definitely. I don't want my meal ruined by knowing I'm surrounded by miserable people who are treated badly. And more importantly, I don't want to contribute to the success of the asshole who benefits from it.
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Re: A question for you
Explain "poorly"
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Re: A question for you
ever take a cab ?
fill up your car ? stay in a hotel ? have your haircut ? who built your house ? many many companies treat their employees like shite here - be nice to give your patronage to companies who can prove they treat people well but I can't think of any who advertise the fact |
Re: A question for you
^^^ as above, if I was to take that attitude I could not use any service.
unless the guy is openly horsewhipping his staff in front of me. |
Re: A question for you
You employ someone, you take advantage of their deficiencies/your advantages in order to make a profit off the sweat of their brow. Surplus value . Marxism 101.
This applies anywhere on the planet. Avoid the more extreme examples and at least you sleep better. I do. If you think too much about it, yes, you wouldn't take a cab, buy a meal, etc etc. So you have to be realistic. |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Meow
(Post 9694516)
If you knew that establishments (shop, restaurants or companies generally) treated their staff poorly, would it put you off giving them your custom? Would you avoid going there?
I can't really name places for legal reasons (although I know quite a few and I am sure you do too) but am generally curious about the bored's (sic) take on this. |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Meow
(Post 9694516)
If you knew that establishments (shop, restaurants or companies generally) treated their staff poorly, would it put you off giving them your custom? Would you avoid going there?
I can't really name places for legal reasons (although I know quite a few and I am sure you do too) but am generally curious about the bored's (sic) take on this. As you will be well aware, the majority of low paid workers here are not treated fairly. The only thing I do that may or not make a difference is tip everyone in low denominations of cash (e.g. is it is a 50dh tip, use 5 and 10 dh notes) and hope it goes to the right staff. Not worthy of a Nobel prize, but I can't really think of much more that could make a difference here. |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by NorthernLad
(Post 9694772)
Tricky one...the employees are likely there because they can't move anywhere else. So taking aware my custom will only mean they receive less money/perks or it gets so bad (in terms of the business) that they are made redundant and hopefully find a better job somewhere else.
As you will be well aware, the majority of low paid workers here are not treated fairly. The only thing I do that may or not make a difference is tip everyone in low denominations of cash (e.g. is it is a 50dh tip, use 5 and 10 dh notes) and hope it goes to the right staff. Not worthy of a Nobel prize, but I can't really think of much more that could make a difference here. |
Re: A question for you
It's a depressing question.
I try to treat people with dignity and tIp well. I would avoid places that I knew treated their staff badly but... But... Here? That could be everywhere. Although, I was consulting at a company today where the boss is a bloody gem and the staff, whilst made to work hard and paid peanuts, are genuinely happy and passionate about their work. It didnt half lift my spirits. A tiny company with more balls, more creativity and more integrity than some of the major media players here. Restored my faith in Dubai human nature. I heard that certain petrol companies don't let the pump attendants keep their tips... That there are no pockets on their trousers because of this. Jeez. |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by seven seas
(Post 9694520)
definitely. I don't want my meal ruined by knowing I'm surrounded by miserable people who are treated badly. And more importantly, I don't want to contribute to the success of the asshole who benefits from it.
But other wise, yeah, generally avoid giving money over to especially known, bad companies, Nike, Apple etc. |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by seven seas
(Post 9694643)
You employ someone, you take advantage of their deficiencies/your advantages in order to make a profit off the sweat of their brow. Surplus value . Marxism 101.
This applies anywhere on the planet. Avoid the more extreme examples and at least you sleep better. I do. If you think too much about it, yes, you wouldn't take a cab, buy a meal, etc etc. So you have to be realistic. |
Re: A question for you
I don't mind tipping to feel better and hope that it does actually make it to them and make some small difference.
Restaurants take the piss with a standard 10% service charge, so I don't tip at all unless they've been good. I sort of agree with the start of Reservoir Dogs, it's got to be good service to warrant a bonus, especially on top of the 10%.....but I generally do anyway. Does anyone else get annoyed though, in a taxi when the bloke has driven like a complete maniac, not really known where he's going and generally been a bit blunt / rude. Then you come to pay and its 22dizzers for example, you give 30 and wait, you get the 5 and then they just stop doing anything, expecting to be rewarded with an extra 3dhms for being a prick. I normally just give up and let them have it, 50p isn't the end of the world, but I feel like they're winning everytime. Drive like a twat = tip. |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Scamp
(Post 9695941)
I sort of agree with the start of Reservoir Dogs.
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Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by charismatick
(Post 9695949)
Yeah, like we know what the F#@& you're talking about. Here's a tip Scamp: Nobody remembers the opening scene from your favorite movie.
Can anybody on here remember the opening scene to Reservoir Dogs when they discuss tips? To help you; Tarantino's debut as director, 1992, small budget, some big name actors. I'll be astounded if no one has heard of it, the debate about tips at the start is spot on. |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Scamp
(Post 9695961)
Challenge Accepted.
Can anybody on here remember the opening scene to Reservoir Dogs when they discuss tips? |
Re: A question for you
Just being here means you're in the system , there's no way you can avoid it . A large percentage of the working populace in the Gulf are treated like dogshit.
We're part of it we fuel it and by our actions we condone it . I'ts wrong in every regard . Some expats think this is Utopia and they're living the dream . Their Utopia is someone else's nightmare. Ive wrestled with my morals for many years on the rights and wrongs of this place . The whole ethos of this part of the world stinks to high heaven but we're all on the bus people and there's always the next stop to get off if it gets a bit too much . |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by co durham boy
(Post 9695992)
Just being here means you're in the system , there's no way you can avoid it . A large percentage of the working populace in the Gulf are treated like dogshit.
We're part of it we fuel it and by our actions we condone it . I'ts wrong in every regard . Some expats think this is Utopia and they're living the dream . Their Utopia is someone else's nightmare. Ive wrestled with my morals for many years on the rights and wrongs of this place . The whole ethos of this part of the world stinks to high heaven but we're all on the bus people and there's always the next stop to get off if it gets a bit too much . |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Meow
(Post 9694516)
If you knew that establishments (shop, restaurants or companies generally) treated their staff poorly, would it put you off giving them your custom? Would you avoid going there?
I can't really name places for legal reasons (although I know quite a few and I am sure you do too) but am generally curious about the bored's (sic) take on this. N. |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Scamp
(Post 9695961)
Challenge Accepted.
Can anybody on here remember the opening scene to Reservoir Dogs when they discuss tips? To help you; Tarantino's debut as director, 1992, small budget, some big name actors. I'll be astounded if no one has heard of it, the debate about tips at the start is spot on. On the major thread; you can take it to the nth degree. One of the major contractors on a major oil/gas project in saudi is the worse I have ever seen when it comes to staff treatment. Would I therefore not buy the super cheap petrol in Saudi because the plant that processed it exploited its contract employees during the construction phase ? My only concern is that unhappy exploited employees in a restaurant kitchen are less likely to wash their hands after going for a dump |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Scamp
(Post 9695961)
Challenge Accepted.
Can anybody on here remember the opening scene to Reservoir Dogs when they discuss tips? To help you; Tarantino's debut as director, 1992, small budget, some big name actors. I'll be astounded if no one has heard of it, the debate about tips at the start is spot on. I may watch that film tonight - not seen it for years. I generally tip 10% of the bill (zero if service charge is included already). I live my life here as blinkered as possible otherwise my conscience would be telling me not to live here (never mind shop here) at all. |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Tockalosh
(Post 9696075)
My only concern is that unhappy exploited employees in a restaurant kitchen are less likely to wash their hands after going for a dump
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Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Mogs
(Post 9696100)
Mr Pink (Steve Buscemi) only tips if the waitress provides service above and beyone the expected level of service. Mr Blue/Black/Brown/White (?? can't remember - Harvey Keitel) replies saying something like, "so if she doesn't give you a blow job you won't tip her" Mr Pink eventually puts in a tip due to peer pressure of his gang members following the explanation that waitresses working on minimum wage require tips to make a living (feed their kids, etc).
I may watch that film tonight - not seen it for years. I generally tip 10% of the bill (zero if service charge is included already). I live my life here as blinkered as possible otherwise my conscience would be telling me not to live here (never mind shop here) at all. It's difficult when you look at 10% service charge included - knowing full well it won't go to the guy/girl serving you. But then you're seen as a bastard for not tipping again etc. We generally tip, but rarely 10% of the bill. 1200 dhs at the Meat Co. did not warrant a 120dhs tip. |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Scamp
(Post 9695961)
Challenge Accepted.
Can anybody on here remember the opening scene to Reservoir Dogs when they discuss tips? To help you; Tarantino's debut as director, 1992, small budget, some big name actors. I'll be astounded if no one has heard of it, the debate about tips at the start is spot on. |
Re: A question for you
barber told my mate not to tip in front of his boss the other day because he just takes it
we said we'd leave it in the chair for him you do what you can in this place, we're having the afternoon off for Diwali |
Re: A question for you
Interesting responses. I said nothing specifically about the lowest paid workers (in the ME or anywhere), just asked generally.
Let me be more specific. You like a cafe/restaurant and have been a few times, but then find out that the owner, shouts at staff behind the scenes, is something of a bully and has sacked people for no good reason. Would you continue to go there, or would you find somewhere else? Would you even try to do anything about it? We all know that numerous people in the ME are poorly treated, but just shrugging and saying that's the case doesn't help anyone. There are companies where staff are treated better, so surely it is preferable to patronise them, rather than those who mistreat - if at all possible? |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Scamp
(Post 9696107)
Exactly.
It's difficult when you look at 10% service charge included - knowing full well it won't go to the guy/girl serving you. But then you're seen as a bastard for not tipping again etc. We generally tip, but rarely 10% of the bill. 1200 dhs at the Meat Co. did not warrant a 120dhs tip. The 10% service on the bill is put into a collective fund. a % of that is used to improve facilities at their Oasis Village staff accommodation (like cinema/games/ etc ) and the rest is divided out to ALL staff in the hotel including the guys who sweep the paths or do the maintenace and have no contact with the clients so therefore do not get tips. If customers leave additional monies on top of the 10%, that is put in a pot and divided amongst the staff of THAT restaurant...which is normal practice in any decent restaurant :-) |
Re: A question for you
Ignore him, Scamp: everybody who's ever seen Reservoir Dogs remembers the opening scene.
I've asked some of the waiters/esses in my favourite watering holes if they actually get the tips, and they do, which is good. But I'm reluctant to tip when there's a compulsory service charge, although generally I will tip if the service has been good, and will just consider the service charge as part of the costs of the meal. Taxi drivers get tips if they don't drive or behave like twats. I try to avoid patronising companies which treat their staff badly, but I don't try that hard... |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Meow
(Post 9696556)
Interesting responses. I said nothing specifically about the lowest paid workers (in the ME or anywhere), just asked generally.
Let me be more specific. You like a cafe/restaurant and have been a few times, but then find out that the owner, shouts at staff behind the scenes, is something of a bully and has sacked people for no good reason. Would you continue to go there, or would you find somewhere else? Would you even try to do anything about it? We all know that numerous people in the ME are poorly treated, but just shrugging and saying that's the case doesn't help anyone. There are companies where staff are treated better, so surely it is preferable to patronise them, rather than those who mistreat - if at all possible? However, if I ever heard a boss being a git to his employees I would have to wade in on the "concerned customer can't believe you treat people like that" sort of front because I am a gob-shite who couldn't help herself! :eek: |
Re: A question for you
A trainee made a mistake with my account at a well known KSA mobile company, and when I went in to complain, the manager insisted on dragging the trainee back to the store (on his day off) and get him to apologise to me personally, and repay the loss out of his own pocket...
I told the manager that I wouldn't accept such a thing as the guy is a trainee, and if he's made an error it is his fault, not the trainees, and the company should pay, or he should give me the refund himself :p Got my money back, from the company, and I closed my account, and changed to a different mobile company. |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Patsy Stoned
(Post 9696640)
I don't know about anywhere else but Jumeirah's policy is.....
The 10% service on the bill is put into a collective fund. a % of that is used to improve facilities at their Oasis Village staff accommodation (like cinema/games/ etc ) and the rest is divided out to ALL staff in the hotel including the guys who sweep the paths or do the maintenace and have no contact with the clients so therefore do not get tips. If customers leave additional monies on top of the 10%, that is put in a pot and divided amongst the staff of THAT restaurant...which is normal practice in any decent restaurant :-) Often the best guys/girls you meet are the ones sweeping or dirving the golf cart. |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Tockalosh
(Post 9696075)
My only concern is that unhappy exploited employees in a restaurant kitchen are less likely to wash their hands after going for a dump
|
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Meow
(Post 9696556)
Interesting responses. I said nothing specifically about the lowest paid workers (in the ME or anywhere), just asked generally.
Let me be more specific. You like a cafe/restaurant and have been a few times, but then find out that the owner, shouts at staff behind the scenes, is something of a bully and has sacked people for no good reason. Would you continue to go there, or would you find somewhere else? Would you even try to do anything about it? We all know that numerous people in the ME are poorly treated, but just shrugging and saying that's the case doesn't help anyone. There are companies where staff are treated better, so surely it is preferable to patronise them, rather than those who mistreat - if at all possible? I think 10% is ridiculous, downright insulting. I'm a 40 to 60, sometimes 100% tipper. 100% if i'm coming back, 40 if i'm not. |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Meow
(Post 9694516)
If you knew that establishments (shop, restaurants or companies generally) treated their staff poorly, would it put you off giving them your custom? Would you avoid going there?
I can't really name places for legal reasons (although I know quite a few and I am sure you do too) but am generally curious about the bored's (sic) take on this. |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Meow
(Post 9696556)
Interesting responses. I said nothing specifically about the lowest paid workers (in the ME or anywhere), just asked generally.
Let me be more specific. You like a cafe/restaurant and have been a few times, but then find out that the owner, shouts at staff behind the scenes, is something of a bully and has sacked people for no good reason. Would you continue to go there, or would you find somewhere else? Would you even try to do anything about it? We all know that numerous people in the ME are poorly treated, but just shrugging and saying that's the case doesn't help anyone. There are companies where staff are treated better, so surely it is preferable to patronise them, rather than those who mistreat - if at all possible? I'd like to think that I would do something, speak to the manager and tell him why I'm not coming back. |
Re: A question for you
Originally Posted by Meow
(Post 9696556)
Interesting responses. I said nothing specifically about the lowest paid workers (in the ME or anywhere), just asked generally.
Let me be more specific. You like a cafe/restaurant and have been a few times, but then find out that the owner, shouts at staff behind the scenes, is something of a bully and has sacked people for no good reason. Would you continue to go there, or would you find somewhere else? Would you even try to do anything about it? We all know that numerous people in the ME are poorly treated, but just shrugging and saying that's the case doesn't help anyone. There are companies where staff are treated better, so surely it is preferable to patronise them, rather than those who mistreat - if at all possible? |
Re: A question for you
I'd go back. Then again, I wear cotton, eat chocolate, drink coffee, own an Apple product, have diamonds and gold: all products of exploitation in one form or another.
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen... |
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