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Niqab ban upheld by Human rights court

Niqab ban upheld by Human rights court

Old Jul 1st 2014, 3:52 pm
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Default Niqab ban upheld by Human rights court

The European Court of Human Rights has upheld a ban by France on wearing the Muslim full-face veil - the niqab.

A case was brought by a 24-year-old French woman, who argued that the ban on wearing the veil in public violated her freedom of religion and expression.

French law says nobody can wear in a public space clothing intended to conceal the face. The penalty for doing so can be a 150-euro fine (£120; $205).

The court ruled that the ban "was not expressly based on the religious connotation of the clothing in question but solely on the fact that it concealed the face". The Strasbourg judges' decision is final - there is no appeal against it.
A court statement said the ruling also "took into account the state's submission that the face played a significant role in social interaction".
"The Court was also able to understand the view that individuals might not wish to see, in places open to all, practices or attitudes which would fundamentally call into question the possibility of open interpersonal relationships, which, by virtue of an established consensus, formed an indispensable element of community life within the society in question."


An interesting decision, with no appeal.

BBC News - European Court upholds French full veil ban
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Old Jul 2nd 2014, 7:13 am
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Default Re: Niqab ban upheld by Human rights court

I don't agree with the decision but I do like the reasoning that they have given which is something I never really considered before.
The amount of people affected is so small it seems like their reasoning would have a negligible affect on society, certainly at the moment.
I would not have supported a ban but certainly insisted it should be removed where establishing identity or security is important.
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Old Jul 2nd 2014, 8:20 am
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Default Re: Niqab ban upheld by Human rights court

I do agree with the ban but its a pity that the UK will never do the same
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Old Jul 4th 2014, 10:41 am
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Default The French 'Burka Ban'

I haven't seen anything about it in the ME section, but this letter was published in The Times today. The newspaper has a paywall so here it is in full.

An imam points out that the burka is not required by the Koran and should be outlawed in public in the UK

Sir, It is commendable that the European Court of Human Rights has upheld the French ban on wearing the burka in public. It is significant that this funded test case was brought against the French government by a Pakistani-origin citizen who claimed the burka ban violated (in telling sequence) her religious, cultural and personal rights. This is untrue. There is no Koranic mandate for female facial masks; it is not culturally common for Pakistani women to conceal their faces; and no one, including women, has an unqualified right to dress as one pleases in public. For too long the British establishment has been hoodwinked by Muslim zealots that the burka/niqab is intrinsic to Islam. It is nothing of the sort: it is pre-Islamic, non-Koranic and ipso facto un-Muslim.
For this reason alone, all right-thinking people should reject this imported Saudi fad on compelling religious, social, sexist, security and health grounds.
If Muslim women are banned from hiding their faces in Mecca or when they perform their daily prayers, why is this archaic tribal rag given any legitimacy in contemporary Britain?
The UK should also outlaw this Wahhabi-Salafi inspired trend. This Saudi-financed campaign is just another salvo in the battle for the hearts and minds of British Muslims. If Britain’s liberal and human rights industry fails to recognise this, we will all live to regret it.
Dr T Hargey
Imam, Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford
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Old Jul 4th 2014, 11:16 am
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Default Re: The French 'Burka Ban'

Sounds like a sensible bloke. Britain could do with a few more people with his level headed-ness.
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Old Jul 4th 2014, 2:16 pm
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Default Re: The French 'Burka Ban'

Originally Posted by OleJanx View Post
Sounds like a sensible bloke. Britain could do with a few more people with his level headed-ness.
Sounds too sensible to be true...anybody Snoped it?
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Old Jul 4th 2014, 2:25 pm
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Default Re: The French 'Burka Ban'

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy View Post
Sounds too sensible to be true...anybody Snoped it?
Eh? It was published in The Times today. There was an article about it too and people know this man's identity.


One of the most interesting parts is this "If Muslim women are banned from hiding their faces in Mecca or when they perform their daily prayers, why is this archaic tribal rag given any legitimacy in contemporary Britain?"

Is that correct? Woman are not permitted to cover their faces in Mecca? Or when praying?

Dressing modestly I understand, but I have never understood why it is ever considered necessary for any woman to cover her face.

Last edited by Meow; Jul 4th 2014 at 2:27 pm.
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Old Jul 4th 2014, 2:44 pm
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Default Re: Niqab ban upheld by Human rights court

Is this Sunni versus Shi'ite stuff? Wouldn't surprise me.
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Old Jul 4th 2014, 2:45 pm
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Default Re: Niqab ban upheld by Human rights court

Burqas are not worn in Oman, but full face veils and niqabs are outside of the central part of Muscat.

What I find incredibly offensive though is when women wear face veils in a woman only gynaecologist's waiting room. That's my first and immediate gut instinct - to feel offended. I think it is because they view being there as shameful, so therefore they think that I am shameful for being there?

As the Imam says - such attitudes are pre-Islamic and tribal and ignorant.
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Old Jul 5th 2014, 7:09 am
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Default Re: The French 'Burka Ban'

Originally Posted by Meow View Post
Is that correct? Woman are not permitted to cover their faces in Mecca? Or when praying?

Dressing modestly I understand, but I have never understood why it is ever considered necessary for any woman to cover her face.
It's true that they are not allowed to cover their face in Mecca, don't know about the prayer routine though. I'd imagine it is the similar case though.
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Old Jul 5th 2014, 7:19 am
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Default Re: Niqab ban upheld by Human rights court

Originally Posted by OriginalSunshine View Post
What I find incredibly offensive though is when women wear face veils in a woman only gynaecologist's waiting room. That's my first and immediate gut instinct - to feel offended. I think it is because they view being there as shameful, so therefore they think that I am shameful for being there?
I doubt they consider you at all, I'd imagine they are overly sensitive or protective about medical issues especially ones related to having kids. Culture of large families and all that.

On a very slightly related tangent:
I'd like the option of a face veil if I had the misfortune to require a visit to ye olde clappe clinic.
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Old Jul 5th 2014, 8:39 am
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Default Re: Niqab ban upheld by Human rights court

weasel, valid point. it's not all about me.... except when they all stare at the only westerner in the house...
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Old Jul 5th 2014, 11:50 pm
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Default Re: Niqab ban upheld by Human rights court

Afghanistan | Retronaut and not a burqa in sight
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Old Jul 6th 2014, 12:48 pm
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Default Re: The French 'Burka Ban'

Originally Posted by Meow View Post
brought against the French government by a Pakistani-origin citizen who claimed the burka ban violated (in telling sequence) her religious, cultural and personal rights. [/I]
I have only rarely seen women wearing the "burka" / "niqab" in Pakistan.
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Old Jul 6th 2014, 5:04 pm
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Default Re: Niqab ban upheld by Human rights court

I've seen the women wearing them in Saudi - not all but many, we figure it's because they're so damned ugly their husbands want to hide them.
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