Masdar City

Old May 5th 2011, 10:01 pm
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Default Masdar City

Gizmodo is reporting that Masdar City officially opened last weekend. It is billed as the world's first carbon neutral city.

Ok I am finding it very hard believe that any city in the UAE could be carbon neutral, with the UAE penchant for high per capita energy uses, highest in the world. Now I realize this city is 'special' but how much of a difference can you really make? Even such claims in the West would leave me skeptical so in the UAE even more so.

http://gizmodo.com/#!5798005/the-wor...s-for-business
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Old May 6th 2011, 7:43 am
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Default Re: Masdar City

In short it isn't, not even close, in fact it's pretty ****ing far from it.
So far the power requirements are so in excess of that generated by the tidily little pv plant next to it that it's quite funny.
When you then add in the carbon footprint of the actualy build ie power used to generate the water used in construction, the carbon used for the concrete etc it's laughably shite

Great idea which could have been done easily under the original budget however itnwas run by **** nuggets who employed more **** nuggets who collectively missed the point by such a massive margin that their international partners are now embarrassed to have been scammed into being part of it.

Shame as had any sense of reality and competence been involved it would have been a huge PR coup not to mention the right thing to do

Oh and as an aside there is a nice wikileaks cable about IRENA and the fact the UAE got it's hq for services rendered to the us govt.
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Old May 6th 2011, 11:09 am
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Default Re: Masdar City

Originally Posted by shiva View Post
In short it isn't, not even close, in fact it's pretty ****ing far from it.
So far the power requirements are so in excess of that generated by the tidily little pv plant next to it that it's quite funny.
When you then add in the carbon footprint of the actualy build ie power used to generate the water used in construction, the carbon used for the concrete etc it's laughably shite

Great idea which could have been done easily under the original budget however itnwas run by **** nuggets who employed more **** nuggets who collectively missed the point by such a massive margin that their international partners are now embarrassed to have been scammed into being part of it.

Shame as had any sense of reality and competence been involved it would have been a huge PR coup not to mention the right thing to do

Oh and as an aside there is a nice wikileaks cable about IRENA and the fact the UAE got it's hq for services rendered to the us govt.
Can you explain the bolded, I don't follow.
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Old May 6th 2011, 11:48 am
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Default Re: Masdar City

IRENA is teh international renewable energy thingy, the uae lobbied hard to get the bodies HQ to be based in Masdar, so much so that a couple of the wikileaks cables mention MBZ and the state department discussing it. for support given to the us over bases and a stance against iran the uae got us support for IRENA and clintons backing for nuke power
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Old May 7th 2011, 12:32 am
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Default Re: Masdar City

Remember all the hoo haa for the WTC in Bahrain? It was meant to generate x% of power..and what does it do? It shakes..it generates about 5% of power used, if that is actually true...Who had the genius idea of wind power in a non windy spot such as Bahrain? But Atkins do seem to make a load of cash out here, so nevermind.

Last edited by Paracletus; May 7th 2011 at 12:32 am. Reason: spelling mistake yo
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Old May 7th 2011, 6:06 pm
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Default Re: Masdar City

I thought Masdar City was supposed to be just a kind of show-home environment where they tried out new ideas in urban planning and sustainable power?
When I was there was a lovely breeze blowing through and there were lots of shady areas.
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Old May 7th 2011, 6:38 pm
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Default Re: Masdar City

can anyone explain why solar power isn't a big deal here?

It just seems so obvious. Am I missing something?
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Old May 7th 2011, 6:50 pm
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Default Re: Masdar City

Originally Posted by lullabelle View Post
can anyone explain why solar power isn't a big deal here?

It just seems so obvious. Am I missing something?
Sand does nasty things to shiny solar panels.
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Old May 8th 2011, 5:19 am
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Default Re: Masdar City

Originally Posted by lullabelle View Post
can anyone explain why solar power isn't a big deal here?

It just seems so obvious. Am I missing something?
So many reasons, but in a nut shell:

- They don't perform well in the heat.
- Sand
- Diffused light (look up, the sky is never blue and clear and the light is 'diffused')
- Damn expensive - upfront capital costs c. 6-7x more expensive.
- Oil is cheap
- No storage
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Old May 8th 2011, 6:00 am
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Default Re: Masdar City

Originally Posted by Millhouse View Post
So many reasons, but in a nut shell:

- They don't perform well in the heat.
- Sand
- Diffused light (look up, the sky is never blue and clear and the light is 'diffused')
- Damn expensive - upfront capital costs c. 6-7x more expensive.
- Oil is cheap
- No storage
Whilst all of the above are certainly true most already have solutions or ones would become apparent shortly after use and investment. None are insurmountable given some innovative thinking and investment but as previously said innovative thinking is the key missing component at Masdar. Last time I met the CEO he had a thing for wind and geothermal neither of which are practical here. Given the initial budget land area available and the cheap labour solar is practical here it just may not reach peak efficiency figures.

The main problem here is the subsidisation of electricity which cripples any solar power pay back combine that with no guaranteed power purchase agreement for alternative energy and you'll be running a charity not a commercial power provider.

**** nuggets
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Old May 8th 2011, 7:34 am
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Default Re: Masdar City

Originally Posted by shiva View Post
The main problem here is the subsidisation of electricity
spot on.

There is the possibility of wind near the Saudi border, but solar is the only option here really. Long term performance is also an unknown.
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Old May 8th 2011, 10:26 am
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Default Re: Masdar City

Originally Posted by Millhouse View Post
spot on.

There is the possibility of wind near the Saudi border, but solar is the only option here really. Long term performance is also an unknown.
There is always an ill-wind from Saudi...
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Old May 8th 2011, 10:29 am
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Default Re: Masdar City

Originally Posted by OleJanx View Post
There is always an ill-wind from Saudi...
I knew the puns would come. Load of hot air to me.
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Old May 8th 2011, 2:27 pm
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Default Re: Masdar City

Originally Posted by Millhouse View Post
I knew the puns would come. Load of hot air to me.
I've been blowing hot and cold on this for a while.

There could be better ways to use solar energy than PVs, but it'd require investment - and as mentioned, the subsidies kill the economics.
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Old May 9th 2011, 3:35 am
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Default Re: Masdar City

Isn't the zero carbon clap trap just a front for Masdar's real purpose - buying carbon generated from African power stations which is then injected into the ground to make oil extraction easier?

Or is that a far too simplistic cynacism?
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