Originally Posted by boyfrombangor

In fact BB, I need to tie my two comments together because they appear to contradict each other. So to clarify, I am going to invoke the Four Lions argument.

That was a film about four nutters who went on a jihad but it was played for laughs as shoddy, slapstick and farcical. But what I took away from it was that although the force of conviction was there, there was no real organisation - it was a leaderless fight, it was just a hotchpotch group of ****ed up losers. So there are provocateurs, figure heads, but all they do is whip up a frenzy from a distance by feeding the flames and encourage people to agree with their view.

I too have a force of conviction, that Liverpool are still the greatest football team of all time and will be top of the league and Europe once more, but I'm not about to go postal on some ManUre fans (or am I?).

What I mean is, Timothy McVeigh was exacting revenge for the Waco Siege against what he saw as a tyrannical federal government in the US. Which is a clearly ridiculous viewpoint but a strongly held view amongst Okies and mountain men and Fox News viewers - who hold Tea Parties but don't blow up a van killing 188 innocent people. The Continuity and Real IRA are a couple of intermarried republican families plus a few vulnerable and out of work idiot recruits who sang a few too many rebel songs and romantically don't want to stop fighting "The Brits." The Boston Marathon bombers were practically naturalised but culturally uncomfortable US Chechens who inexplicably grew a Timothy McVeigh-style chip on their shoulder, about what? The treatment of Chechen villages and their Freedom Fighters by the Russian Army? But they too listened to a few too many rebel songs and decided in their heads that it was about the Muslims against the West. And lthough the Chechens are well into the Jihad in the 'Stans, those brothers were just good old fashioned nutters. With an appropriated cause. It would be like the Irish Americans sending money home through Noraid actually taking up arms and going Brit hunting.

They say that in Northern Ireland, during all the bombings, assassinations of policemen and indiscriminate murders of Catholics/Celtic fans/black taxi drivers, THERE WAS AN UNUSUALLY LOW AMOUNT OF OTHER VIOLENT CRIME AND PSYCOPATHY. I mean FFS. This crime is just labelled terrorism, which is a valid definition with a small t, but as soon as the news reports it as Terrorism there is a mass panic and it is elevate from the level of a tragic crime to an Issue of National Security Even Though We Arrested The Perpetrators Immediately.

You want to see real Terrorism? Go to a market or other public place in Iraq and wait. You want to see real Jihad? Go to Syria or the Hindu Kush.

For comparison with these recent acts of UK & US terror, suicide bombers were usually profiled as a vulnerable young adult who has been encouraged by a shady back room figure who convinced them to put this vest on but the US has bombed **** out of most of those now and they prefer a much more hands-off approach now (sorry Abu Hamza!). It takes more trawling for potential recruits in the right location but with the internet now as it is, it is so, so easy to attract angry young men and plant seeds.

That happened on both sides in Northern Ireland (admittedly on a much larger and organised scale) due to the closeness of the community and an "Us versus Them" mentality - did you know that Paisley 'accidentally' formed the UDA? Now one man can influence the global Muslim - or tinfoil hat conspiracy theory - population with a torrented video sermon/Moon landing footage. Moon landing conspiracy example thrown in to indicate the level I consider the jihadist movement AND ITS POPULARITY.

But these recent events are all great for the original provocateurs. They have the general population convinced that an entire minority is a time bomb that could go off at any time because of their culture, not because of their mental state. This raises the tension in the general population, which isolates the minority more, which makes them more likely to go off. All because two nutters in a UK islamic population of ?millions? went off.

Originally Posted by Kix

Problem is all we see from Islam is death/threats/violence etc. and that's not what it's all about.

Originally Posted by Uncle_Bob

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia
in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men"

Winston Churchill

Originally Posted by Kix

Really more of them should get out and protest against the murder,

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy

When, and where, did he write that?

Originally Posted by Uncle_Bob

You would think they would be protesting this misuse and total disrespect of their religion. But maybe that takes something far worse than a horrific and barbaric murder. Something like a cartoon drawing perhaps?

Originally Posted by Uncle_Bob

You would think they would be protesting this misuse and total disrespect of their religion. But maybe that takes something far worse than a horrific and barbaric murder. Something like a cartoon drawing perhaps?

Originally Posted by Boomhauer

Originally Posted by Uncle_Bob

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia
in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men"

Winston Churchill

Originally Posted by Uncle_Bob

In his book "The river war"

Originally Posted by Kix

And there's a video response from the Muslim Council of GB.

Really more of them should get out and protest against the murder, that would help move the "Hang them up brigade" to a softer stance.

Problem is all we see from Islam is death/threats/violence etc. and that's not what it's all about.

FB (from Sky News cant find it on news.sky)

Originally Posted by Uncle_Bob

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia
in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men"

Winston Churchill