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boroboy Apr 5th 2009 5:42 pm

Lovely Police
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...-ian-tomlinson

It seems it was not a heart attack but the innocent man was hit over the head by the police. What a suprise that the "protestors stopped us from saving him" stories came out very quickly and were even mentioned on here.

I remember when Menendes was shot in Stockwell and the eye witnesses told of a man with a rucksack of Middle Eastern appearance jumping over the ticket machine and acting very strangely. None of these were later proved to be true.

This man was not even protesting.

The Dean Apr 5th 2009 6:19 pm

Re: Lovely Police
 

Originally Posted by boroboy (Post 7453660)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...-ian-tomlinson

It seems it was not a heart attack but the innocent man was hit over the head by the police. What a suprise that the "protestors stopped us from saving him" stories came out very quickly and were even mentioned on here.

I remember when Menendes was shot in Stockwell and the eye witnesses told of a man with a rucksack of Middle Eastern appearance jumping over the ticket machine and acting very strangely. None of these were later proved to be true.

This man was not even protesting.

So........ questionable policing then..............

.......... just ten days before the 20th anniversary of Hillsborough.........

BangleMan Apr 5th 2009 7:57 pm

Re: Lovely Police
 

Originally Posted by The Dean (Post 7453704)
So........ questionable policing then..............

.......... just ten days before the 20th anniversary of Hillsborough.........

am sure the police made mistakes that day, but would Hillsborough have happened if 100's of Scouse fans hadnt turned up that day without tickets.....er, no

the police had a very tough choice to make that day, as people could just as easily been injured or killed in the crush outside the ground caused by ticketless fans pushing to get in through the turnstiles, so they opened the gates....obviously in hindsight the wrong decision, but we could still have had a similar scenario if they hadnt have done, who knows

Used to go to see West Ham there each season during the 80's and that tunnel at Hillsboro' going out onto the terraces was very narrow and very claustrophobic...and was a disaster waiting to happen

Sky Blue Apr 6th 2009 4:17 am

Re: Lovely Police
 

Originally Posted by BangleMan (Post 7453911)
am sure the police made mistakes that day, but would Hillsborough have happened if 100's of Scouse fans hadnt turned up that day without tickets.....er, no

the police had a very tough choice to make that day, as people could just as easily been injured or killed in the crush outside the ground caused by ticketless fans pushing to get in through the turnstiles, so they opened the gates....obviously in hindsight the wrong decision, but we could still have had a similar scenario if they hadnt have done, who knows

Used to go to see West Ham there each season during the 80's and that tunnel at Hillsboro' going out onto the terraces was very narrow and very claustrophobic...and was a disaster waiting to happen

Dont think turning up without a ticket is an excuse for what happened. Police made some monumental errors that day, read this piece from a few weeks back...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...ster-survivors

Inselaffen Apr 6th 2009 4:43 am

Re: Lovely Police
 

Originally Posted by Sky Blue (Post 7454641)
Dont think turning up without a ticket is an excuse for what happened. Police made some monumental errors that day, read this piece from a few weeks back...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...ster-survivors

The police did make serious mistakes that day but fans drinking in pubs until the last minute and then trying to push their way into the ground certainly did play a part in what happened though. Not that it will ever be admitted.

commander Apr 6th 2009 5:15 am

Re: Lovely Police
 
It was a tragedy that could have been averted. I don't think its right to apportion blame.

Life is all about learning from mistakes. Another hillsborough in the UK would be a disaster.

Mistakes happen, procedures are sometimes wrong, the thing is to learn and move on.

Its always easy to blame the police.

BangleMan Apr 6th 2009 5:26 am

Re: Lovely Police
 

Originally Posted by Sky Blue (Post 7454641)
Dont think turning up without a ticket is an excuse for what happened. Police made some monumental errors that day, read this piece from a few weeks back...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...ster-survivors

In my opinion, its no coincidence that two of the biggest football tragedies have involved Liverpool fans at Hillsboro and at Heysel....

Yet, the press always make them out to be lovable scally's ....pah !

Sky Blue Apr 6th 2009 5:52 am

Re: Lovely Police
 

Originally Posted by commander (Post 7454744)
It was a tragedy that could have been averted. I don't think its right to apportion blame.

Life is all about learning from mistakes. Another hillsborough in the UK would be a disaster.

Mistakes happen, procedures are sometimes wrong, the thing is to learn and move on.

Its always easy to blame the police.

Yes but what about the 86 FA Cup Final, I remember (only just as I am not that old!), scousers climbing over the walls and mobbing the whole area! What did the police learn there?

Easy to blame the police? Well I dont think they do themeselves too many favours really... Lots of warnings over the years, just no real positive way to solve the problems... Until a loads of people die...

Sky Blue Apr 6th 2009 5:56 am

Re: Lovely Police
 

Originally Posted by BangleMan (Post 7454758)
In my opinion, its no coincidence that two of the biggest football tragedies have involved Liverpool fans at Hillsboro and at Heysel....

Yet, the press always make them out to be lovable scally's ....pah !

The press?? Lovable scallies? What papers do you read?

I'm no northern lover but hey never seen a lot of good press for scallies? Maybe apart from the beatles and Ricky Tomlinson!!!

lionheart Apr 6th 2009 5:56 am

Re: Lovely Police
 

Originally Posted by BangleMan (Post 7454758)
In my opinion, its no coincidence that two of the biggest football tragedies have involved Liverpool fans at Hillsboro and at Heysel....

Yet, the press always make them out to be lovable scally's ....pah !

Don't be a southern poofter. Liverpool fans are no worse than any others. Indeed, from my experience, the worst behaved are Millwall and Chelsea.

BangleMan Apr 6th 2009 6:04 am

Re: Lovely Police
 

Originally Posted by lionheart (Post 7454806)
Don't be a southern poofter. Liverpool fans are no worse than any others. Indeed, from my experience, the worst behaved are Millwall and Chelsea.

whats being a 'southern poofter' in what I said ?

Maybe they arent now, but the press used to go on about how great it was that Liverpool and Everton fans could stand side by side, family alongside family at Cup Finals and the like, when a few weeks before and after they were involved in two of the biggest tragedies to hit football....

I cant abide the pikey's from Millwall. At least Chelsea fans 20 years ago were Chelsea fans, not like the plastic fans that go there now glory hunting

Nothing gets my back up more than seeing a Chelsea shirt here or in some other place a million miles away from Stamford Bridge worn by some local who has seen Lumpard & co on tv once....w***ers !

Norm_uk Apr 6th 2009 6:20 am

Re: Lovely Police
 

Originally Posted by boroboy (Post 7453660)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...-ian-tomlinson

It seems it was not a heart attack but the innocent man was hit over the head by the police. What a suprise that the "protestors stopped us from saving him" stories came out very quickly and were even mentioned on here.

I remember when Menendes was shot in Stockwell and the eye witnesses told of a man with a rucksack of Middle Eastern appearance jumping over the ticket machine and acting very strangely. None of these were later proved to be true.

This man was not even protesting.

It's always easy to sit behind a desk with a cuppa rationalising how the police or protesters did this or that thing wrong and could have avoided whatever. When you're in the middle of a riot though you do tend to make snap decisions based more emotion and the "primitive" side of the brain than higher reasoning powers.

When the adrenaline is flowing you get tunnel vision and often have trouble controlling the urge to "fight or flight".


N.

still.unsure Apr 6th 2009 9:05 am

Re: Lovely Police
 

Originally Posted by The Dean (Post 7453704)
So........ questionable policing then..............

.......... just ten days before the 20th anniversary of Hillsborough.........

[email protected] that was 20 years ago???

...am getting old...

Inselaffen Apr 6th 2009 9:26 am

Re: Lovely Police
 

Originally Posted by BangleMan (Post 7454758)
In my opinion, its no coincidence that two of the biggest football tragedies have involved Liverpool fans at Hillsboro and at Heysel....

Yet, the press always make them out to be lovable scally's ....pah !

they are professional victims.
there vermin granny stabbin supporters don't think twice about singing about Ice on the runway but they cry if anyone says anything about Hillsborough! Twats!

jvr20 Apr 8th 2009 8:09 am

Re: Lovely Police
 

Originally Posted by boroboy (Post 7453660)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...-ian-tomlinson

It seems it was not a heart attack but the innocent man was hit over the head by the police. What a suprise that the "protestors stopped us from saving him" stories came out very quickly and were even mentioned on here.

I remember when Menendes was shot in Stockwell and the eye witnesses told of a man with a rucksack of Middle Eastern appearance jumping over the ticket machine and acting very strangely. None of these were later proved to be true.

This man was not even protesting.


there's a video now:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/ap...police-assault

no doubt the 'police are always right, or if wrong, it wasn't their fault, doing a great job among the great unwashed' apologists will come up with a reason why... or maybe some may suggest that the whole thing was fabricated, or put together by a treehugger (in fact the video was taken by a fund manager from New York)


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