London riots

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Old Aug 9th 2011, 12:29 pm
  #136  
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Smile Re: London riots

Originally Posted by kittycat1
Isn't Capitalism and Globalisation to blame for the recession in the first place?
Only in that people no longer have jobs and income due to improper management of an asset bubble. People with jobs don't go rioting and looting, they feel they have too much of a future to risk.
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Old Aug 9th 2011, 12:34 pm
  #137  
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Default Re: London riots

When this economic strategy is implemented when you are Queen, Miss Kitty, it means that the cost of goods and services in the UK would become so expensive that it would cripple its own good intentions.

Without capitalism or globalism, we'd all be living in much more reduced state with a much lower level of comfort or prosperity. Many of your suggestions are similar to what was praticed in the Soviet Union - and the typical Russian worker had a much lower standard of living compared to his counterpart in a standard Western country.

What has globalisation meant? It means the cost of goods and services are far cheaper than they were ten or twenty years ago. Clothing, food, electronics, all the goods so beloved of rioters, are far cheaper than they were for our grandparents. We may not have the factories we once did, but our lives are certainly much more comfortable than the lives lived by our grandparents who worked in those factories. Our subsidised UK unemployed youth lives a much better lifestyle than a chinese factory worker making cheap shoes or fake football shirt.

Yes, there are tradeoffs. The economic model has changed. We don't have the industrial base we once did. Then again, we don't have the agricultural base we once did and there were plenty of people who lamented the decline of agrarian Britain and shifting of the population to the nasty, dirty, oppressive mill towns.

Who knows what the future may bring to us, but I'd be cautious at wanting a return to some old economic model that's now long obsolete and can only be held on to at an enormous economic and political cost.
i dont think its such a bad thing, we are now a population driven by greed with no concern for our environment or fellow peasants wellbeing.

Whats actually important in life? Is it how many luxuries we have? Is it how big a bank balance we have, what car you drive? Yes, security is important of course, but security you can get without having to be a billionaire. A bit more concern for the people around us may actually make the population happier on an everyday living scale rather than wanting the next iphone or whatever. I think perhaps we have come to far and become too greedy, and too lazy. Reign it back and living a little more modestly would not be a bad thing in my books. There is something wrong in the world when pensioners cant afford to use their heating in winters and no neighbours go round to check they are ok, or when people turn a blind eye when they see someone getting assaulted or when kids feel so dissillusioned they think its ok to cause riots around our capital city. Peopel no longer just want to be comfortable, they want want want want. It is actually disgusting what we have become.

I'm just going to go off and start my own little community where we do have naked wednesdays and care about the community and everyone gets a hug and smile everyday :-) and you make time for eachother and recycle stuff, and all live happily ever after.
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Old Aug 9th 2011, 12:44 pm
  #138  
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Smile Re: London riots

So Norway?

Agreed on having a greater social concern, if not anti-globalisation economics.
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Old Aug 9th 2011, 12:46 pm
  #139  
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Default Re: London riots

Regardless of the reasons why people are on the streets looting and vandalising isn't it time for the police and army to step up? get out the water cannons and start loading guns with rubber bullets and tear gas, if they're worried about the legality declare martial law. come on, how long are they going to let it run? civil order must be regained before any talks can be had on what needs to be sorted socially (or not as it were).

kids can't get jobs?? whatever! there is loads of jobs, but they are 'too good' to take them! this is completely about opportunism. and it has absolutely nothing to do with that chap who got shot in tottenham. he was a crook of course, but only time will tell how big a crook he was. anyway, no reason for the whole bloody country to riot is it?

and i'm going to the uk in 3 days! great..
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Old Aug 9th 2011, 12:49 pm
  #140  
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Default Re: London riots

Only in that people no longer have jobs and income due to improper management of an asset bubble. People with jobs don't go rioting and looting, they feel they have too much of a future to risk.
Improper management - hmm could that be due to too much power by certain companies that have become too big and have too much influence and when a problem occurs there are massive consequences. Smaller companies make much more sense in the sense that if one company goes bust everything doesnt go tits up. Look at the high street- so many empty sites because you have one chain go bust then every high street loses it- you get 10 chains go bust you ned up with empty high streets and not enough businesses to pull spending to thsoe towns anymore. We've created a monster by too much growth too qucikly. It hasnt been organic growth it has been extraodinary, you can see now how many companies are expanding out of their native countries and becoming global brands. Is it not enough to have conquered your own country or you have to have entire global domination. I dont mean sit idol once you are established but there is so much more companies could do rather than expand with the same structure- it will soonbe taht no matter where in the world you go there is a starbucks, a Zara, a Marks and Spencers, a Victorias Secret, all offering crap customer service and putting small independant businesses out of trade because they cannot compete with the super companies. Its wrong in my opinion. And who makes money from these super businesses- the fat cats at the top, they are of no benefit to anyone other than the dumb consumer who thinks they are getting more choice but in fact they will end up having less. yuck!
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Old Aug 9th 2011, 12:50 pm
  #141  
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Default Re: London riots

just watched a video of police chief or someone saying they will sort it tonight... and "army not needed"

better be 100% then and go in heavy I reckon
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Old Aug 9th 2011, 12:52 pm
  #142  
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Smile Re: London riots

Lets see what happens over the next few nights before we commit ourselves to confrontation that could lead to social division. I'd rather see this nipped in the bud before we try intimidating people into obeying laws.

If they send in the army Dave essentially admits his police cuts went too deep.
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Old Aug 9th 2011, 12:54 pm
  #143  
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Default Re: London riots

Originally Posted by kittycat1
i dont think its such a bad thing, we are now a population driven by greed with no concern for our environment or fellow peasants wellbeing.

Whats actually important in life? Is it how many luxuries we have? Is it how big a bank balance we have, what car you drive? Yes, security is important of course, but security you can get without having to be a billionaire. A bit more concern for the people around us may actually make the population happier on an everyday living scale rather than wanting the next iphone or whatever. I think perhaps we have come to far and become too greedy, and too lazy. Reign it back and living a little more modestly would not be a bad thing in my books. There is something wrong in the world when pensioners cant afford to use their heating in winters and no neighbours go round to check they are ok, or when people turn a blind eye when they see someone getting assaulted or when kids feel so dissillusioned they think its ok to cause riots around our capital city. Peopel no longer just want to be comfortable, they want want want want. It is actually disgusting what we have become.

I'm just going to go off and start my own little community where we do have naked wednesdays and care about the community and everyone gets a hug and smile everyday :-) and you make time for eachother and recycle stuff, and all live happily ever after.
I pretty much agree with much of what you have said here, but not your earlier post. Whilst your suggestions for business are 'nice' they are impractical and unworkable and also penalise those who set up and run good, profitable businesses.

If someone has been foolish enough to spend far more than they can afford on holidays or handbags, why should they be bailed out? As you say above, many have become too greedy and should live more moderately.

It seem to me that society has become too consumer/status driven and that is what needs to be addressed. WAGs should not be role models, people shouldn't be judged because of the labels they wear and we need to put more value of what really matters in life, family, friendship, health.


Having read masses of comment today on different sites, forums etc, I am getting rather fed up with the number of apologists for these thugs. No matter the situation there is simply no excuse for the looting, theft and criminal damage that happened last night.
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Old Aug 9th 2011, 12:55 pm
  #144  
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Default Re: London riots

Originally Posted by Charismatic
Lets see what happens over the next few nights before we commit ourselves to confrontation that could lead to social division. I'd rather see this nipped in the bud before we try intimidating people into obeying laws.

If they send in the army Dave essentially admits his police cuts went too deep.
I really hope we don't see the army on the streets.
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Old Aug 9th 2011, 12:56 pm
  #145  
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Default Re: London riots

weliveher- poor kid- ao its not really looting a kid-hes basically getting mugged. I hope the police can prosecute from this. They really are shits!
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Old Aug 9th 2011, 12:57 pm
  #146  
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Default Re: London riots

Originally Posted by kittycat1
Improper management - hmm could that be due to too much power by certain companies that have become too big and have too much influence and when a problem occurs there are massive consequences. Smaller companies make much more sense in the sense that if one company goes bust everything doesnt go tits up. Look at the high street- so many empty sites because you have one chain go bust then every high street loses it- you get 10 chains go bust you ned up with empty high streets and not enough businesses to pull spending to thsoe towns anymore. We've created a monster by too much growth too qucikly. It hasnt been organic growth it has been extraodinary, you can see now how many companies are expanding out of their native countries and becoming global brands. Is it not enough to have conquered your own country or you have to have entire global domination. I dont mean sit idol once you are established but there is so much more companies could do rather than expand with the same structure- it will soonbe taht no matter where in the world you go there is a starbucks, a Zara, a Marks and Spencers, a Victorias Secret, all offering crap customer service and putting small independant businesses out of trade because they cannot compete with the super companies. Its wrong in my opinion. And who makes money from these super businesses- the fat cats at the top, they are of no benefit to anyone other than the dumb consumer who thinks they are getting more choice but in fact they will end up having less. yuck!
The dumb consumer indeed.

Most people have a choice. Many can choose to use independent stores, but sadly most are so lazy or apathetic they they choose the easy option, and then complain when real choice is reduced.

Sometimes we get what we deserve.
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Old Aug 9th 2011, 1:04 pm
  #147  
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Default Re: London riots

I pretty much agree with much of what you have said here, but not your earlier post. Whilst your suggestions for business are 'nice' they are impractical and unworkable and also penalise those who set up and run good, profitable businesses.

If someone has been foolish enough to spend far more than they can afford on holidays or handbags, why should they be bailed out? As you say above, many have become too greedy and should live more moderately.

It seem to me that society has become too consumer/status driven and that is what needs to be addressed. WAGs should not be role models, people shouldn't be judged because of the labels they wear and we need to put more value of what really matters in life, family, friendship, health.


Having read masses of comment today on different sites, forums etc, I am getting rather fed up with the number of apologists for these thugs. No matter the situation there is simply no excuse for the looting, theft and criminal damage that happened last night.
Absolutely agree with the comments on what kids aspire to- I hate going into a newsagent in the Uk to be overwhelemed with gossip mags. I think this the News of the world stuff also indicates how warped our society has become. A good hard look at ourselves is needed in my opinion. Kids feel they shouldbe handed everything on a plate and tehy want teh superstar lifestyle- well lifes not liek that for teh majority of peopel so get off your asses and get grafting!

In regards to why should peopel be bailed out- I think it has got totehat point- they are only going to be bankrupted anyway so may as well let them freeze their debts and pay it back rather than get it clean wiped off.

And I know my opinions on business growth are 'nice' but at greed is an evil thing- being nice would actually benefit society a damn site more than growing beyond society. Isnt that what we are all here for at the end of the day?

Last edited by kittycat1; Aug 9th 2011 at 1:05 pm. Reason: so many typos- i have a cold so please forgive me english police
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Old Aug 9th 2011, 1:07 pm
  #148  
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Default Re: London riots

Originally Posted by kittycat1
weliveher- poor kid- ao its not really looting a kid-hes basically getting mugged. I hope the police can prosecute from this. They really are shits!
Hmm yes, but the guy who took the item out of this kids back pack, threw away a wrapper...so I assume what ever this item was, it was wrapped and new...and why did this kid have a bloody nose and an item wrapped in his back pack? I think he may be a looter.
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Old Aug 9th 2011, 1:13 pm
  #149  
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Smile Re: London riots

Originally Posted by kittycat1
Improper management - hmm could that be due to too much power by certain companies that have become too big and have too much influence and when a problem occurs there are massive consequences. Smaller companies make much more sense in the sense that if one company goes bust everything doesnt go tits up. Look at the high street- so many empty sites because you have one chain go bust then every high street loses it- you get 10 chains go bust you ned up with empty high streets and not enough businesses to pull spending to thsoe towns anymore. We've created a monster by too much growth too qucikly. It hasnt been organic growth it has been extraodinary, you can see now how many companies are expanding out of their native countries and becoming global brands. Is it not enough to have conquered your own country or you have to have entire global domination. I dont mean sit idol once you are established but there is so much more companies could do rather than expand with the same structure- it will soonbe taht no matter where in the world you go there is a starbucks, a Zara, a Marks and Spencers, a Victorias Secret, all offering crap customer service and putting small independant businesses out of trade because they cannot compete with the super companies. Its wrong in my opinion. And who makes money from these super businesses- the fat cats at the top, they are of no benefit to anyone other than the dumb consumer who thinks they are getting more choice but in fact they will end up having less. yuck!
One of the very basic tenets of capitalism is actually false, that more choice makes people happy. It's been studied and shown to be false in a number of studies.

The trick isn't to impose limits on companies, but to make sure that some of their gain is distributed throughout society. I think that's where people need to adjust their thinking about capitalism, its a tool for bringing wealth to people that will (hopefully) allow them a better quality of life. It's not an end unto itself or some magic bean that will make life better through existence. It should serve us.

There are plenty of small guys out there still successfully taking the fight to the big boys in most industries. We do need to put this "too big to fail" concept behind us though, it's just not in the nature of fair play.
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Old Aug 9th 2011, 1:13 pm
  #150  
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Default Re: London riots

Originally Posted by kittycat1
Absolutely agree with the comments on what kids aspire to- I hate going into a newsagent in the Uk to be overwhelemed with gossip mags. I think this the News of the world stuff also indicates how warped our society has become. A good hard look at ourselves is needed in my opinion. Kids feel they shouldbe handed everything on a plate and tehy want teh superstar lifestyle- well lifes not liek that for teh majority of peopel so get off your asses and get grafting!

In regards to why should peopel be bailed out- I think it has got totehat point- they are only going to be bankrupted anyway so may as well let them freeze their debts and pay it back rather than get it clean wiped off.

And I know my opinions on business growth are 'nice' but at greed is an evil thing- being nice would actually benefit society a damn site more than growing beyond society. Isnt that what we are all here for at the end of the day?
As it's you I am not going to put on my Grammar Police hat

Sadly, I suspect that if you bail out most people they won't learn a lesson and change their ways. I'd love to think that they would, but most won't.

Yes, greed can be bad, but not all large businesses are evil. I honestly don't know what the answers are, but blaming big business when the problems seem to have been caused by so many things isn't the answer. I'd like large companies to take a benevolent approach, for everyone to have a little more consideration for others, but much as I desperately want that to happen, it probably won't.

Life isn't just about things, but many people never realise that.

It's all so bloody depressing.
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