KSA - The Holy Cities

Old Jun 23rd 2020, 11:19 am
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Default KSA - The Holy Cities

Both of these are closed to non-muslims. I was in Medina, at the airport, which is outside the restricted area. There is a similar restricted area in Mecca. In the 1990s I worked part-time for LANSA (Larsan Nielsen Saudi Arabia) in Jeddah, They had a branch in Mecca which offered classes in English. A company driver took us up there twice a week and brought us back. Mecca was a strange place. Have other non-muslims visited ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca#..._Jabal_Nur.JPG

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Old Jun 23rd 2020, 12:22 pm
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Default Re: KSA - The Holy Cities

We flew to Medina from Riyadh in 2011 on a trip to Al Ula. Police escort all the way but that's another matter - Mada'in Saleh was an absolutely fantastic experience - no wonder they are developing it now.

In Medina there's a a series of 'start of haram' marker posts around the town showing where the Muslim only inner city starts. I don't think they were fully aligned with the ring road we were on as we kept dipping in and out of the 'magic circle' on our route north


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Old Jun 24th 2020, 6:21 pm
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Default Re: KSA - The Holy Cities

When we went to M'dain Saleh in 2005 we were followed around by local "Shebab" in 4x4s shouting abuse. They were not put off by our armed police escort.

On the same visit we met a team of saudi archaeologists from Riyadh. They swore us to secrecy and then showed us a statue they had excavated. About 600 BC. Why the secrecy ? "If local Shebab find out about it, they will destroy it, These dudes will chop your head off if they think you are a statue-worshipper or idolater !

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Old Jun 24th 2020, 8:16 pm
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Default Re: KSA - The Holy Cities

I didnt know they allowed cheats.
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Old Jun 24th 2020, 10:21 pm
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Default Re: KSA - The Holy Cities

"Cheats" ? Mdain Saleh is part of the same civilisation that built Petra in Jordan. Better known and mnore accessible "Red rose Petra, half as old a time."
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Old Jun 25th 2020, 12:04 am
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Default Re: KSA - The Holy Cities

Originally Posted by scot47 View Post
"Cheats" ? Mdain Saleh is part of the same civilisation that built Petra in Jordan. Better known and mnore accessible "Red rose Petra, half as old a time."
"A company driver took us up there twice a week and brought us back. Mecca was a strange place. Have other non-muslims visited ?"
Access to Mecca for non Muslims.
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Old Jun 25th 2020, 6:47 am
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Default Re: KSA - The Holy Cities

There is a perimeter. The outer suburbs of Mecca are accessible to all. Only the "Haram" area is closed to non-believers. Lansa Training Center was outside that line.

My line about Petra is from this poem - http://www.poetryatlas.com/poetry/poem/3771/petra.html
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Old Jun 25th 2020, 7:43 am
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Default Re: KSA - The Holy Cities

Originally Posted by scot47 View Post
"If local Shebab find out about it, they will destroy it, These dudes will chop your head off if they think you are a statue-worshipper or idolater !
Yeah I recall some damage as well as lots of bullet holes in any heritage signs


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Old Jun 25th 2020, 10:42 am
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Default Re: KSA - The Holy Cities

A Saudi colleague told me it is closed till the end of the year for conservation.
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Old Jun 25th 2020, 11:51 am
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Default Re: KSA - The Holy Cities

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabataeans

The Nabateans were in charge in the Hejaz and Midian and controlled this important trade routes. Those in charge now discount all of the History of the area prior to the rise of Islam. Wahabis and Salafists are not into understanding other cultures.
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Old Jun 25th 2020, 5:56 pm
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Default Re: KSA - The Holy Cities

Originally Posted by scot47 View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabataeans

The Nabateans were in charge in the Hejaz and Midian and controlled this important trade routes. Those in charge now discount all of the History of the area prior to the rise of Islam. Wahabis and Salafists are not into understanding other cultures.
Disagree with that. If that was the case there wouldn't be the massive push to develop the area for tourism, which ties in with the whole Red Sea coast development, and Neom, generally.

​​​​​​The coastline from Umluj upwards is lovely, and not far in Saudi terms from Madain Saleh.

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Old Jun 25th 2020, 7:33 pm
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Default Re: KSA - The Holy Cities

There is in fact a dispute between The "Modernisers" and those who want to stay in the world of Mohammed Abdul-Wahab. 50 years ago we saw this conflict between King Faisal and those who resisted change.
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Old Jun 25th 2020, 10:39 pm
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Default Re: KSA - The Holy Cities

Originally Posted by scot47 View Post
There is in fact a dispute between The "Modernisers" and those who want to stay in the world of Mohammed Abdul-Wahab. 50 years ago we saw this conflict between King Faisal and those who resisted change.
Don't think there's any doubt about who's in charge though, or who's winning any conflict!

The Ritz Carlton proved that....
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Old Jun 26th 2020, 4:03 am
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Default Re: KSA - The Holy Cities

Ritz Carlton ? Explain to an old man who left KSA in 2010
Is that where the opponents were detained ?
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Old Jun 27th 2020, 12:14 pm
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Default Re: KSA - The Holy Cities

i should have learned by now that Wikipedia Knows All, Sees All and Tells All -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritz-Carlton,_Riyadh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–19_Saudi_Arabian_purge

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