scrubbedexpat141

Good thing is England have the same level of expectation as Ireland in this tournament.

weasel decentral

Any sort of half decent performance tonight is going to have all the papers and media move straight into enger-land to dominate the euros mode

Meow

I hope not. It seems that so far it's been quite sensible without a ridiculous build-up.

I'm expecting a draw.

scrubbedexpat141

Part of me hopes we get a proper hiding in every group game.

But the other part things Hodgson doesn't really deserve it, and he wouldn't deserve the whole "we should 'ave 'ad 'arry'" that will follow any poor show in the tournament.

QF's England would be in line to play either Spain or Italy...on last nights game I would be surprised if England managed to do anything against either. But I'll reserve full judgement until after tonight.

Miss Anne Thrope

Thank you for your insight into the motivations of the electorate of a "proud people of a proud country". We are certainly glad to have such profound analysis to help us understand what we are thinking.

On the other hand, it could be because we recognise that we are a small country whose destiny lies incontrovertibly with Europe and we embrace that (as we have done all the way back to when we were the only EU member to vote on the treaty of Maastricht in 1987; despite widespread expectation that it would marginalise Ireland in Europe, we endorsed it and it turned out to be the ignition for our genuine economic development in the '90s - unlike the construction bubble from 2002-'07).

Nice 1 referendum was when Ireland was at the height of it's Celtic tiger arrogance and we had been piqued by a reprimand from the European Commission for pursuing budgetary policies that were too expansionary (and how right they were...).

Lisbon 1 was at the peak of the intense anger at the FF government so anything they asked us to do we were going to refuse (and the yes campaign was utterly inept).

Nice 2 and Lisbon 2 were both carried with more than 60% of the vote on much higher turnouts than the first iterations. This suggests clearly that there is much less a fundamental disenchantment with the EU than an understandable desire to tweak the noses of our leaders (in Brussels and in Dublin) every now and then.

The Irish electorate remains overwhelmingly in favour of EU (and Euro) membership as confirmed consistently by opinion polls as well as elections. Presumably this is because they recognise the benefits it has brought (quite aside from the relatively insignificant contributions from the regional fund during the 1990's). Under EU membership Ireland has moved from being a priest-ridden backwater to being a modern prosperous country. Despite its current travails, Ireland now is a much better place to live than it was even as recently as the 1980's for example. Fortunately the best efforts of the fifth column English press to infiltrate Ireland (The Irish Sun for chrissakes - a paper that so recently vilified decent Irish people) and turn us too into ignorant knee-jerk Euro-hating pea-brains have not succeeded at all.

weasel decentral

that's probably one of the most pompous things I have read on here, if it's intentional I salute you

The sheer irony of a British person complaining about denial of democracy in a foreign country has exploded my irono-meter.
I feel some one has ripped a few (hundred) pages from your history book

scrubbedexpat141

But have you got a flag?

MacScot

Unlike the first time (1707) it will be the PEOPLE of Scotland that decide (in a referendum) not the "robber politicians".

BinCat

It was due to be demolised in 1989, the year Charles visited. Donkeys years before tourism took hold here. There was no 'commercial case' to have it preserved at that time. It was left as it was and fell into more dis-repair. The decision to revamp it into a tourist destination was not taken until about 2005. No. the locals probably wouldn't have known of Charles' role - it was the Iranian traders who still lived and worked there who had signed the petition, and knew the outcome. The land Bastakia is built on was given to the Iranians back in the 1890s.

Boomhauer

That could easily end up being a case of tyranny of the majority as England's population is nearly 10 times that of Scotland's. The people who live in Scotland really should be the only ones to decide if they want to go it alone, as they are deciding their self determination only.

Norm_uk

Well the original Union was a case of tyranny by Scottish and English robber Barons so what's the difference? This time it would be all the people of the Isles deciding rather than politically provincial bigots who play on deep seated ignorance of their own people. I doubt the many pro-Union Scots would be happy...maybe the Scottish nationalists are aiming for a Northern Ireland situation?

In any case they are having their vote it seems. What happens after that is another matter. I think it's sad people like Salmon want to base his identity on separatism and anti-Englishness. Scotland is already so much better off than England in most regardless within the Union what with the English taxpayer getting a bum deal - why would they want to spoil a good thing and run off to the EU(SSR)?

Do they hate England and the idea of a united British isles so much they would risk ruining Scotland's prosperity and identity?

N.

desert_dwellers

Considering the fact that Scotland is an oil producing country, shouldn't that then mean that the the Scotish people should enjoy a life style on a par with what the Gulf state locals are enjoying, big houses, BMWs, Mercs, etc.???
Has anybody been to Glasgow?

The Dean

Oh I see............ "I'm all right, Mick"? Good grief...........

Better off in it than outside it? You have to be joking....... wait a minute - oh I see what you mean; your industries - particularly construction and agriculture - supported by that well-known benevolent society, the Anglo-German Taxpayers Association.....

The stupidity and greed of Irish politicians has a lot to do with this: they should never, ever have joined the euro. They brought the country down as it suffered with low interest rates, a false boom and a massive bust. But look at what the Eurocrats did in response to them: what they were told as their government was collapsing was that it would be 'inappropriate' for them to have a general election. In fact EU Commissioner Olly Rehn said they had to agree to a budget first before they were allowed to have a general election. That's what I meant by a denial of democracy (Weasel?).

It's pretty clear that the Irish people were conned/deluded by the 'Yes' campaign's promises of investment, while being bullied by economic threats. True, a majority of the (very low) turnout voted 'Yes' but that only handed more power over the country to the European Commission and ECJ. What's that about better to be a free poor man than a rich slave? (or something)

I think that it has been the whole series of Yes votes to EU treaties which have led Ireland to its current dire economic circumstances. Britain did it as well, that's true - handing over its fisheries for the benefit of France and Spain. At Maastricht, Ireland handed over its currency and control of its own interest rates which gave it a boom leading to the bust. At Nice it lost control of its borders and immigration policy and at Lisbon it entered into a new Act of (Political) Union, ceding huge power to EU institutions.

I don't get it.... you're financially better off? In a strictly limited definition, yes in some ways..... but you've given up so many of the things that define a country's sovereignty and independence.

And the euro will not survive - there is no way that the current path is viable or sustainable. If Greece falls away (the likeliest first casualty) who is next? The markets (guilty, m'Lud) will pick off the next weakest (look at what happened to Spanish bonds today) - sooner or later, that's going to be your lot.

You think it's a good thing? Shame - there are far far more important things than the illusion of wealth.

weasel decentral

Link me to this claim you are making about Olly Rehn and how he scheduled our elections. You are being incredibly naive here if you think that Cameron or any incumbent government would not choose a time of election to suit him or his party. Denial of democracy indeed.
Also European votes have always had low turnouts historically, this is nowhere near the lowest turnout and in fact close to the average.

The main thrust I see from your post of this idea of losing sovereignty and independence which is in my opinion working against the idea of the EU in the first place. We chose to embrace the idea, and participate whole heartedly rather than grab from the sidelines or use the EU as a bogeyman for local election purposes or contrarian points of view to the incumbents (save our pound campaign for example which was pitched xenophobically rather than economically)

Gave up our borders in Nice you say? We not only gave up our borders, we chose further to allow all EU members to work in Ireland without restriction, one of only two countries to do so.

If your points are going to be framed in this fashion you have missed the idea of a European Union completely.

Mogs

They do in Aberdeen