Bahtatboy

...because you're either for the US or against them, no middle ground. Well, that's the position if your company (or any other company which is part of the same group of companies as yours) does business with Iran.

Obama has just enacted the "Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability, and Divestment Act of 2010".

Do business with Iran, and you face the possibility of no business with the US government or US companies.

The Act is extra-territorial, meaning that is applies to all companies from all countries, not just those with a US base or connection.

So Obama's found a neat and probably effective way of ignoring the UN and imposing sanctions directly, world-wide. Thankfully the Act starts with the words "To amend the Iran Sanctions Act of 1996 to enhance United States diplomatic efforts with respect to Iran by expanding economic sanctions against Iran." And I thought they might be up to something else...

Norm_uk

I wouldn't do business with Iran if I could help in anyway as a matter of principle as it is a state sponsor of terrorism...not that me not buying Iranian walnuts or whatever would make a big difference. Most of my money probably supports German brewers and Chinese restaurants hehe.

The UN is a bit of a joke anyway - I actually admire how the US puts it's own interests before a bunch of dry diplomats and terror sponsoring states who are trying to make blasphemey international law and who ignore the charter on human rights because it doesn't sit with their 7th century laws. Europeans are often aghast when the US acts in it's own interests right or wrong instead of politely being the world's doormat...inactive and happy to let everyone walk over us.

N.

shikra

I don't know if I should support Iran, mainly because I am not sure if their intentions of enriching Uranium are exactly what they are claiming, BUT as United States is still searching for the weapons of a@rse destruction, therefore, I am against the U.S. My call is for a neutral Umpire

Norm_uk

The USA doesn't stone women for adultery or have running street battles with it's students who are begging for reform (well, except in Detroit of course )...why would you support Iran on anything except Persian cuisine and history?

Dilmun

It is actually quite frightening, how much democratic states are outnumbered in the UN.

Norm_uk

Indeed...and ironic that the UN allows totally non-democratic and often repressive states to even have a voice in the UN.

Makes no sense at all.

Bahtatboy

But where do you draw the line? And is it not better to keep your friends close but your enemies closer?

shikra

The USA does support peace loving nations like for example..amm, what you call it, Israel, which is stoning not only women but children to death with weapons better than stones. And let us not discuss the Vietnam and Iraq war because that is something acceptable as compared to punishing someone for just committing sex, which actually we all do because we need it.

I don't support punishing people like these Saudis do, but I am not supporting a more worst option either, in which I shouldn't care who I am punishing and why! May be it was better that Uncle Saddam had really tried to built Weapons of @rse destruction, at least the world peace loving country like U.S could have justified its actions................................

sometimes, bad option is better than worst, Norm.

Dilmun

Of course, only close communication can make our world a safer place, but you still have to ask yourself, how much value the choices and votes made by the UN have.
Here the no:
Of 192 members only 88 countries have a democratic system.

Umbrella

I support Japan and Sweden.

I like sashimi. I like butter.

I don't like them together, but that's for another thread.

If they ever got in a war, I don't know what I'd do. No, wait, I know exactly what I'd do. I'd film a movie about it and call it, "Giant Robot Samurai vs. Super Stoic Viking Guy."

But... I hope it never comes to that.


U

Bahtatboy

Way off topic, Kasa-san, but I like it

AnotherWorld

As a westerner why would I side with Iran? We are talking about governments here right? Because if you make me choose to side with a people, I choose both.

Bahtatboy

No, I'm not asking (or even suggesting) that anyone sides with either government, I was putting the topic up from a business perspective.

If you work for a global company with, say, manufacturing facilities in the US, and from your ME operation you sell into Iran, then you face sanctions under the new law. Those sanctions include the prohibition of intra-group trading, and also a bar from doing business with the US government. And these sanctions are extra-territorial, meaning that even if you're not a US company Obama can hit you.

So that's the choice: trade with Iran and come under the control of the US government, or break your trading ties with Iran and be left alone.

So much for the concept of sovereignty.

Norm_uk

I draw the line when non-democractic countries can out-vote the democratic and freedom loving countries.

The UN should only be open to countries who meet certain criteria on issues like Human rights, social and political freedoms and democratic governments. All other countries should be able to have a voice but not to cast votes or even propose votes be made.

Fairly simply really...and it would stop serious motions to the UN being put forward to make criticism of religion an international crime (have a guess which bloc of countries are in favour of that one?).

N.

Norm_uk

Israel is surrounded by countries that have repeatedly invaded it from day one of it's UN majority recognised creation. To this day only two of it's neighbours even recognise it exists as a legitimate country. If the Israelis were all tree hugging and peace loving they would cease to exist...

..and the Israelis don't stone their own citizens (Arab or Jewish) for adultery, they don't imprison people for having consensual adult sex, neither do they arrest gay people for being gay or tell visitors not to eat in public when their religious people are fasting under pain of fines and imprisonment.

It's like you said...the lessor of two evils.

Anyway, my own country ruled the largest empire in human history - I'm quite certain we didn't manage that by being nice to everyone. Most countries have bloody histories and some still have blood on their hands. We can't expect things to change overnight because a few have managed to avoid war for the last 60 years or so.