Millhouse

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...yside-19134894

yuk

Norm_uk

Tragic...but this is likely gang related. Most gun crime is over drugs, losing face in front of fellow gang members, turf wars etc.

Goes to show how our ban on guns makes gun crime nonexistent.

N.

Millhouse

The weapon isn't the problem here, could so easily have been knives. Sadly, what it does show is that we do not educate, invest in, empower or care about our youth. (which is your point about gangs)

Did you read the survey the other day? Most kids think nothing has changed and will we will have riots again soon. The Chav Spring ain't over, innit. Now where is me iPhone?

mentalist

A bloody dangerous part of the world. Much prefer Joburg and Nairobi.

auzdafluff

Nah. Liverpool on the whole is safe. However, just like most major cities, it has suburbs that are best steered clear of.

Miss Anne Thrope

Classic misrepresentation and fairly tasteless effort to make a highly specious point.

Did anybody ever claim strict gun control (there is certainly not a ban on guns - but now that you mention it, maybe that is what is required..) would make gun crime nonexistent? If so, quote please. What gun control is intended to do, and I would argue, does very successfully compared to similar societies with more liberal gun regimes (USA being the obvious example) is to contain the level of gun crime much below where it might otherwise be.

If gun laws were more liberal then how would this situation have been remedied? By having bystanders with guns decide to shoot the perpetrators (or whomever they believed to be the perpetrators) as well?

Paracletus

Haha..agreed.

did you check team GB's boxers..? Rough as ****.

The Dean

Norm's point was, if I understand him correctly, that such incidents are so rare that even a gun-related incident without deaths (the four were wounded but apparently not critically) has become so unusual in the UK that it reaches the media.......

Miss Anne Thrope

Was it? I took it to be a sarcastic dismissal of gun control laws (I guess making assumptions based on where he lies on the political spectrum over there with you neo-Gaullist, fortress England, Queen-on-the pound, Empire-defender types ).

Perhaps he should clarify.

Norm_uk

Indeed - the whole point is the youth are not cultured and educated correctly, which plays a huge part in why things like this happen.

Solving the Chav Spring will require a big shift in how children are educated, how the government approached culture, identity and welfare/job creation. Even if they did it will take a generation or more to fix.

Careful no one nicks your iPhone old chap
N.

Norm_uk

Joburg? South Africa has the highest gun rates in the world...well ahead of our American friends.

N.

Norm_uk

Beat to it...I should have been clearer to avoid being accused of tasteless efforts

N.

Millhouse

Norm - let's make a note of this date. We have agreed on something.

Norm_uk

I believe in borders, culture and nation...and I abhore multiculturalism but am not opposed to multi-racialism at all (especially since I fit that box rather well). I'm a classical liberal (has nothing to do with modern liberalism, which is a few steps away from National Socialism and Communism I feel), a libertarian, a patriot, a pain in the rear and a defender of equal rights and opportunity but not equality of outcome.

I am also a British neo-Con (not to be confused with US Neo-Cons) and think some cultures and nations are objectively better than others.

I hope this clears up which camp I fall into. I will try to be clearer on gun control comments in future.

Ultimately what matters here is that Britain fails it's youth badly, I think we agree on this and just differ on how it fails them and what should be done to fix it.

N.

Tockalosh

Hmm were they African Anglos scousers from the disadvantaged suburbs of one of the most disadvantaged shitholes up over ?
Bless em