Discussion.
 

Good morning all,

Had a question put to me last night and please don't think of the obvious answers only.

"Have you changed much since living in Dubai / abroad?"

I know some of you have lived abroad in various places for many, many years but maybe think of your first posting or first move?

How did it change you?

Personally, I'm a hell of a lot more independent. Not that I was a Mummy's boy before - in fact, I rarely saw my parents, but I didn't know what I was doing half the time and was occasionally irresponsible and just not quite under firm guidance from myself. I still do stupid shit, but independent enough to understand fully consequences and what I can / can't do.

I'm also a lot more confident. If I can move 3500 miles on my jack jones then I can do whatever the **** I want, frankly.

Those are the two things that I've benefitted (not completely, I still seek help everywhere, but that's certainly no weakness in my mind). Along with an increase in impatience, a greater level of tolerance (most of the time) and a better grasp on the value of money.


SO.

What has changed about you lot?

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My first assignment took me from Newcastle to London a 5 hour journey: completely different language and culture. They drank very strange flat beer. But the mail only took 1 to 2 days so a I was able to stay in contact with home.
My next excursion was from London to Northern Nigeria. Travel time was 2 days and Mail took 2 to 3 months so communications with home were more strained. Return leave was every two years. But less of a culture shock than the move from Newcastle to London: The local Guilder and Star beer were excellent.

Personally I do not see living in the GCC as "abroad". I can return to UK easier and faster than I could travel from London to Newcastle, I can communicate by phone, Skype and internet, I get Newcastle Brown (although now I have taken a preference to London Pride) and I can shop in Debenhams. I may as well be in Guildford.

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During childhood I spent more time out of the time - with boarding school and summers on holidays with friends than with parents so i had to be self reliant and confident.

When travelling abroad - im always amazed by the different cultures, the food, the difference between rich and poor (especially in this region) and people living 2-4 hours from my base can be so different - i stunned even now about social differences and keep thinking "there but the for the grace of God".

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I have lost all patience since moving out to the Middle East.

And my driving is far more aggressive, maybe why the missus always drives when we are back home.

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Think again, do you always lose your patience or do you now wait longer before losing it? Do you sometimes just shrug and accept the lengthy / stupid nature of some things / people.

I was impatient in the UK and now I flick between being on an incredibly short patience fuse to being completely unfazed by some things.

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I was was patient in the UK, now the slightest thing sets me off.

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Perhaps the biggest change I have found in myself over the last few years is the level of apathy I now have to the plight or condition of other people's lives.

I don't think I have any feeling left for poverty or general mistreatment of the usual suspects from India, Pakistan etc

I see local or concentrated aid attempts as a complete waste of time and money now, and anyone who believes that saving one life is worth it is a naive ideologist.

So in short I am a horrible uncaring bastard.

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Fair enough! I can be like that but definitely have balanced it the other way a bit too....so I'm the same on average maybe.

Fair point, I think I was always horrible and uncaring.

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My driving is much more aggressive, I am more patient but sometimes there is nothing you can do but loose it! I have to speak to suppliers daily and sometimes it is extremely hard work.

I also know I can depend on myself rather than needing family around for support etc. Your friends back home will always be waiting but you become a lot more sociable living away from home as everybody was in the same boat at some point.

And finally I drink a hell of a lot more here than I did back in the UK!!!

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I drive like a **** and have no tolerance left in me and that's just in the last 8 years.

I do find expats to be less naive than resident Brits both to internal uk politics and global affairs. For example I have an uncle who loves solving the middle east issues from his kitchen in dumfries as he's now an expert having visited morocco and turkey. His ideas sound sensible to those who know nothing about the middle east and beyond laughable to those of us who do.

I've spent most of my life abroad so it's hard for me to judge what has changed but I do find people who have never lived abroad to be very parochial and in general utterly ignorant of the world as a whole and how it actually functions

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The patience thing is a hard one. With me a lot of it boils down to common sense, if you're using it I tend to breathe deeper and wait. If common sense is not there or something is difficult for difficult sake I tend to get wound up quicker.

It also appears that to have an inbuilt gauge that assesses how much patience I have based on what I perceive as peoples ability to deal with the situation. Trying hard to help = more patience, being difficult or deliberately obtuse = I'm already starting to devise the various methods of torture that could be applied....

Driving - Yep worse, if I drove in the Uk the way I drive here I am fairly sure I'd get slapped fairly sharpish (and rightly so)

Arrogant - This is one that got bandied about in the Uk, last time I was back. My argument was what they perceived as me being arrogant was more a case of self belief and strong conviction. To me you have to have fair amount of both to a) make the move as an expat and b) survive once you've made that move....

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I developed a Dale Winton permatan

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Me too, I feel like a coiled spriing at times, and usually release some of the tension whilst driving (in the form of shouting and swearing at most other road users).

Without the driving I think I'd either beat my wife and kids or become another Daily Mail article.

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this is a very good point. self reliance and an ability to deal with endless daily shit storms i find leads to a sense of self belief seen as arrogance. its not

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I agree with that, it's easier to be patient when someone is busting a gut.

I wasn't very patient the other day when the shop assistant was watching a mother trying to calm her lunatic child down instead of firstly swiping the shit I was buying and then secondly taking my card and then thirdly giving me the card machine. It then took a full 25 seconds of her staring elsewhere to realise that she hadn't pressed the button for the second receipt. At that point I got the green light from the Mrs to ask her what she was doing.

Felt good to wait. Even better to say something.

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I also see this when back home, especially when in the local pub with people I grew up with. They need a shot of valium if they are heading south of Scotch Corner (a trip to London takes weeks of planning), they all live within a few miles of their parents but they are happy with that and I have no issues.

On the other hand, I get the feeling that some are waiting for me to fail and come running back home to be greeted be a chorus of 'I told you so'. It still amuses me as to the look on their faces when they ask which countries I've visited...it goes back to Shivas comments on how they have a completely distorted view of the Middle East and Africa.

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I split up with my ex after she cried every day in our new place. We had moved from Fareham to Southampton.

Her sister refused to speak to us for months and said that I was splitting up the family by taking her sister away from them all in Gosport...."Fareham was far enough away" - I kid you not.

I get the whole staying close to home and I get that I've never been like that...but christ alive if I end up back in the village I grew up in and there are all my old primary school friends still there I'll have to leave.

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So it's not just me who gets the feeling some people back home want me to fail!!! I was talking with one of my mates at the weekend saying I will more than likely be staying for another couple of years and he just couldn't understand the attraction and I should move back to my home town!!!

Yes I may fail out here but at least I gave it a dam good go!

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Why would you fail though mate?

**** what they think anyway pal. Most people (as has been said) are clueless. I told a pal I'd been to Kuwait, he hadn't heard of the country.:blink:

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When we first moved out it was amazing the amount of people that wouldn't visit as they though the Middle East unsafe. At that time was the end of the Bosnian War it was great point out that they were closer to Bosnia than we were to Gaza!

And ditto on the places been; watching reactions when you "casually" drop visits to places like Baghdad or Tehran into a conversation is petty minded but fun...

Good point - I think we all experience that to some extent. I dont know what you call but but its that "I didn't, couldn't, wouldn't do it but how dare you be successful at it". Typical UK attitude, easer to look for something to knock down rather than address the real issues. And to be fair preventing that "running back home" from happening also acts as a massive motivator for me sometime....

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I left home at 16 as a gobshite to join the Army and got my first experience of living overseas (Wales). I could not understand the locals, They generally did not work, they could not drive, most of them resented us being there even though without our money running through the cigarette and beer shops the place would of been a ghost town. I spent most nights after a hard day avoiding the locals in the Naafi bar drinking beer and talking about girls. 20 years later and nothing has changed except I am now somewhere sunny.

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I don't think I will fail and even if I had to move back to the UK when my contract finishes this year, I would still view moving here as a success!

I was talking to one of my mates about maybe moving into the Middle East office permanently and they didn't know where the Middle East was even though I live in Dubai! I really do worry for some people!!!

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More patient and forgiving with my kids, less tolerant of twats. Partly as a result of age, but mainly as a result of having to deal with a higher number of twats on a daily basis.

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Oooh, what was the 'site rule infringement' this time?

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Now I realise why I dislike the UAE ! It is like Guildford ! Thanks to the poster from Newcastle for pointing that out !

I really did feel more comfortable in Nigeria !

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OK this time I'll explain. There was a new joiner spamming the board this morning, they got banned and posts removed IAW site rule 9. A N Other poster quoted one of the spam posts so that got deleted. Two other posters infringed site rule 15 and got deleted.

Re: Discussion.
 

Maybe because I've only just moved to the ME and most of my time as an expat has been in the FE but I've found that I have grown a lot more patient , more open minded and more tolerant of others . I'm definitely a lot more easy-going now than 15 years ago . Maybe after years in the ME I'll be more uptight , can't see it though . In KSA right now and it's fairly relaxed .
I'm also married with kids now , that changes you .
When I first left the UK I used to take a lot of drugs and drink a lot . I don't do that much now . When I left England I was an angry naive young man , travel and exposure to new cultures and places has corrupted me and made me wiser to the ways of the world . The longer I spend away from the UK the less I find I have in common with people there . No surprises there though .

The thing is with questions like this is that you can never really say how much of all this would have happened anyway .

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Thanks for the update, but haven't you just violated rule 15?

I'll get my coat.

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You're correct, tough to say how much you may have changed regardless...I'll just have a look at my mates in 5 years and see what I might have ended up like.

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The rules of this bored are exactly that..."Site Rules" They are not f**#King Queen's Regulations.
......Just saying :D..not criticising anybody..I am just making an observation and I have checked.. there is no site rule that says I can't make an observation! :D

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How did our posts break the rules? I thanked Mike for protecting me.

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the no drugs and not much booze hasn't got anything to do with KSA , that started a long time before , around the time I got married !!;)

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I'm more stressed and my blood pressure is higher, and I've put on weight. Does that count?

Actually this move has changed me a bit. I'm more than happy to travel to work almost anywhere, i'm excited about where i'll go next. I'm more proactive about my career rather than plodding along at the same company making my way up slowly.

I'm more confident, and less of a doormat, but still a bit of a doormat as I wouldn't want to change too much.

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I have become somewhat racist (stereo typing, prejudist)

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i forgot how to wash my car and cut my grass, have done each twice in the 6 months since I left

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I kind of fall into that category aswell now sadly. I also drink a lot more.

Spend less time at work and more time with the family, so not all bad!

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No idea darling, I think the rules get interpreted to suit the situation or mood :D
Anyway, I've had enough for today I am off.

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Very interesting reading this thread ... we didn't move to the ME until we had both retired so we have a very different perspective on things.

We were fortunate enough to buy property when developers were able to sponsor investors way back in 2004. Then that all changed and we had to set up a free zone company to enable us to live in our wholly owned property until we were able to get our title deeds and residency here in Muscat last year.

Being retired means that we have no access to a PRO so closing down our company in the RAK FreeZone meant that it was all down to us - relatively simple. Being retired meant that moving to Muscat was also down to us - shipping our household belongings and eventually our car and sorting out driving licences etc.

When we left the UK in our early 50s (having never been expat before) all our friends and family thought we were totally off our heads. They thought we were heading into a war zone, especially some of Mr H's US clients. We've no children so have only ourselves to think about and, thus far, are very happy with our decision to leave the UK.

As some have said, a few of our friends are just waiting for us to come "running back home". That's simply not going to happen ... we're very happy here and most simply don't get it. They don't understand how we could have lived in the same village for over 25 years and then moved abroad away from "all our friends". None of whom have visited since we left in June 2005 - it's only free loaders who have visited.

As for changing attitudes to other expat nationalities - we had hoped that moving to Muscat would change this. Unfortunately this hasn't changed

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I agree....... no, I mean I have also become rather racist...... but it's partly to do with the fact that I get to observe other races/nationalities more easily, and can recognise traits and characteristics that are common to each.

Most of all though, as an expat, I have learned far more history/geography/politics out here than I ever did at school - sitting down to talk to Indians/Pakistanis about the history (and founding) of those countries is something I would not have done at home.

Interesting comments about the reaction people get when they go home and see their mates..... I try not to. Simple as that. I still have some rock solid friends that will always be a part of my life, but e-mails and forums like this are the way I keep in touch. There is a 40th anniversary reunion of the school rugby team coming up, which I will attend, but then it will no doubt be a few more years before I see them again (I don't live close to my home town anyway, and many of them still do).

By the way - does anyone else notice that tourists and holidaymakers from home try to avoid expats? If they think you are a fellow visitor, no problem, but if they find out you actually live and work here they make their excuses and disappear.......... anyone?

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My driving is a lot more aggressive. I think I need anger management, as I get so wound up by some of the ridiculously stupid things I see each day.

I have realised that I can manage quite well on my own away from family and friends.

I am regularly out of my comfort zone, but it doesn't stop me doing things.

I think I'm a lot stronger than I was.

I just need to sort out the anger issues before I get deported for road rage!