British Expats - Desi London Mayor

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)

- The Sand Pit (https://britishexpats.com/forum/sand-pit-116/)

- - Desi London Mayor (https://britishexpats.com/forum/sand-pit-116/desi-london-mayor-877121/)

Re: Desi London Mayor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm_uk (Post 11949589)

Or attacks by hyphenated Britons on internal targets would increase.

Of course it's hard to say what an entire group would do though. I think most would try to keep out of it, some would fight Britain from within and a few might fight for Britain too.

Not the ones who drive through British towns waving Pakistani flags when they win the cricket or it's Eid.

N.

There is a slight difference between waving a flag after a cricket match and fighting in a war though.

Re: Desi London Mayor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy (Post 11949907)

AMCWVM?

I dont understand this reference...

Re: Desi London Mayor

Quote:

Originally Posted by iggle (Post 11949900)

What defines being British to me is this.

1) Speak the language
2) Educated in a British School / International School (I don't care what you think or say to this, but if you don't have an understanding of British history / culutre you're not British)
3) Passion about Britain (or one of the home countries), hard to measure but if your proud of the British Irish Lions winning in Aus, or the Olympics, or your in a pub watching Andy Murry in Wimbledon...or even caring about St Georges Day (or welsh/scots equivalent), that werid passion for your country. On the flip side nothing more infuriates me that a British passport holder supporting India whilst they play England in Edgbaston.
4) Skin, and place of birth don't matter to me - that doesn't define being "British"
5) If you vote for Labour you are automatically a traitor (there for not British) in my eyes :eek:

To answer your points.

2) If born abroad they were probably educated abroad. During the time of the British Empire, British history (in a positive way), British literature etc was instilled! Now, as everywhere, any history seems a forgotten subject.

3) As I said before you can have passion for both, all are not narrow minded!. Remember OH when in UK, paying a lot for tickets to see Indian cricket team play England. Stayed at the same hotel as the team, heard them drinking in the early hours--he knew that they had 'thrown' the match and was very disappointed---it happens.

You can respect and admire the skills of both teams. (Or not).

5) Born abroad OH would agree with you. Has always had an irrational prejudice against 'leftist' parties, of both his countries.

Re: Desi London Mayor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm_uk (Post 11950552)

What do you suggest "mixed" and non white people should do then?

Adopt the local culture, language and custom as their own if they are citizens. Put local identity above ancestry as well. Become one of the locals. By all means bring things to the table as well if they fit with the existing culture (like food as one example). But don't call for separate identity based on race and religion. Don't call for separate laws based on the laws of one's religion or previous country.

I say this as someone who is by no means a pedigree from a mixed family.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm_uk (Post 11950552)

On the one hand you blame them for not being British and above "not liked if fully adopt being British"

This is a problem separate communities large enough to sustain an entirely separate existence without melting into the mainstream. And it's a problem of regressive multicultural policies, race and religious based identity politics and opinions. When we have people who are attempting to adopt the culture, laws and customs that made Britain worth moving to in the first place being called 'Uncle Toms' for being 'too British', or for making their own minds up about which political parties to support it's not helpful and is actually really racist as it basically says we are chained to our ancestry and cannot and should not adopt to local conditions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm_uk (Post 11950552)

Do you not realise that many immigrants coming to the UK do adopt the "culture" of their new country as well as keeping the remnants of their original "culture".

Yes I do. This is a generalisation. I cannot speak about each and every person, that would be impossible and ridiculous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm_uk (Post 11950552)

Isn't that what first generation British emigrants do also, they adopt their new country but part of their mindset remains British.

In some cases this is true and in many cases it's not. Depends. There are large areas of my hometown where people are not adapting very well...and many other across the UK because too many are coming too soon. We have a lot of people with loyalties elsewhere who don't feel part of the Britain most of us know. That's sad and in some cases dangerous as the beheaded soldiers, blown up buses and no-go areas attest. A failure of immigration and naturalisation policies in the UK ultimately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm_uk (Post 11950552)

(Not sure what "culture means", most people from where-ever have the same ambitions; to get a good job, raise a family, care for their elderly relatives, keep healthy etc etc.)

You can look up British culture and the cultures of the constituent nations if you're unsure about what I refer to - google is a good course and wikipedia covers the basics of most cultures, including Britain's. Culture is substantially more than going to work and raising a family...if that were all it was all humans wouldn't be divided by their thinking, customs, laws and value systems.

N.

Re: Desi London Mayor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm_uk (Post 11950559)

Or huddling together in ever growing communities divided by ethnic and religious lines and sending for brides from 'back home' even after several generations of being in Britain.

And to be clear this is ultimately the fault of successive government policies.

N.

Isn't that what british expats do? Don't they ever marry from their own communities?
Immigrants who are welcomed, gradually become more confident and spread out.
Yes, you are correct a few communities do not, but they are not the majority of immigrants.
Non EU spouses from abroad now face new rules.

UK's new visa rules 'causing anguish' for families - BBC News

Re: Desi London Mayor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 11950621)

British expats rarely import a British family member to their country of residence for the purpose of immigration through marriage.

Re: Desi London Mayor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inselaffen (Post 11950855)

British expats rarely import a British family member to their country of residence for the purpose of immigration through marriage.

...or have three/four generations of the family in the same house. :lol:

Re: Desi London Mayor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm_uk (Post 11950552)

What defines being British objectively:

Being descended in whole or part from the English, Irish, Scots, Welsh and other native groups of the Islands. In other words, Western European stock.
Speaking their languages (English/Welsh/Gaelic etc.).
Practising the culture of these peoples.
Or, adopting the language and culture of these people and identifying with them.

Being a British citizen however just means having a British passport/birth certificate etc. It says nothing of ethnic, linguistic and/or cultural status.

We seem uncomfortable accepting that British people are Western Europeans and thus tend to be white and as native to their land as any other group of Europeans just as Zulus tend to be black or Apaches tend to be red. And many of us don't like the mixed and non-white people who fully adopt being British (like our new Lord Mayor and some journalists who like to call them Uncle Toms and other utterly racist tripe).

People have been in the British Isles longer than the Arabs have been in Egypt, the Turks have been in Turkey or the Maori have been in New Zealand. And DNA shows most white Britons are at least in part descended from them. There are thousands of years of history as valid as anyone else's.

I'm not advocating some sort of 'purity' nonsense or 'whites only' but we seem to want to avoid the obvious truth that we have a distinct ethnic and cultural identity in the British isles but seem terrified to say it in case someone with a British passport gets offended (or more likely a white middle class metropolitan do gooder). We seem to prefer to chain incoming people to their ancestral culture and religion rather than promote the culture that made Briton attractive to move to in the first place.

Guardian readers may now have their embolism and start calling me racist :p

N.

My kids are mixed race. I would hope that if they do decide to live in the UK at a later point, which they are fully entitled to do, that no one judges them on their skin colour, but more on them as the individuals they are.

Hopefully the 'many' you refer to, will be less by that time.

Re: Desi London Mayor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Millhouse (Post 11950859)

...or have three/four generations of the family in the same house. :lol:

This used to be common in the UK, and still is throughout a majority of countries in the world.

The idea of packing your parents off into a home, is fortunately alien to many.

Re: Desi London Mayor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 11950607)

...
Do you not realise that many immigrants coming to the UK do adopt the "culture" of their new country as well as keeping the remnants of their original "culture".
...
(Not sure what "culture means", most people from where-ever have the same ambitions; to get a good job, raise a family, care for their elderly relatives, keep healthy etc etc.)

You're right when you say you don't know what culture means. The list you've given is of aspirations, which are common to many if not most cultures: to a large extent culture is about how people achieve them, and the interactions they have with others arising out of their striving to fulfill those aspirations. Three familial generations in one house, blatant oppression in terms of freedom of speech, religion and sexual practices, regressive attitudes towards all manner of eqality rights, acceptance of corruption, are not the marks of where British culture has been headed.

Re: Desi London Mayor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy (Post 11950902)

What's wrong with three generations in one house? Seen it in many places in the world without it being an issue.

Re: Desi London Mayor

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonthaburi (Post 11950904)

What's wrong with three generations in one house? Seen it in many places in the world without it being an issue.

I didn't say it was wrong.

Re: Desi London Mayor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy (Post 11950902)

I would probably describe what you have mentioned as 'customs', I suppose "culture" is usually defined as art/music/dance etc.

The negatives you describe, oppression etc are not characteristics of all non British societies.
Obviously you are hinting at the negatives of some Muslim societies, they are not universal in Muslim societies either.

As others have said what is wrong with grand parents living in the same house. (I know that the children often grumble like mad about it, but then granny saves them a lot of money baby-minding):lol:

Re: Desi London Mayor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm_uk (Post 11950913)

The non-EU spouse rules are decades overdue.

N.

decades overdue but badly implemented and hitting genuine marriages.

I've been married to my non-Eu wife for 8 years. Luckily we have no intention of returning to the UK as the process is quite ridiculous and very expensive.

Re: Desi London Mayor

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonthaburi (Post 11950872)

If my wife and I had kids they would also be mixed race. Would that make them any less British than me? Yes, it would. Not because of their race but because one of their parents would not be British.