Re: Brexit outcome
 

There is a good podcast in The Telegraph with Steve Bannon, which is worth a listen, and topical given the POTUS visit to the UK.

His take on Brexit is that there is a definite campign by the global elites to slow-walk Brexit into a complete reversal.

https://choppersbrexitpodcast.telegr...annon-special/

Re: Brexit outcome
 

I am not quite sure Switzerland or Norway are the right comparisons. Switzerland has 8 million people, Norway has 5 million people, and both have completely different economies to the UK and its 65 million people. Why not, then, also use Iceland as a basis for comparison? They also have been in EFTA since 1994 and that did not stop their economy from diving into the toilet for a long time.

Re: Brexit outcome
 

STEVE ****ING BANNON. LOL.

Re: Brexit outcome
 

Ah, well. The Brexit shitstorm is intensifying. Tory polling have dropped sharply since the Chequers deal was announced. Knives are sharpening behind the scene. We are inching towards a point where psychosis (among all sides and parties) takes over pragmatism in politics and everything goes out the window.

Better stock up on the popcorn for when Parliament comes back from recess. I'm looking forward to the new Battle of Edgehill.

Re: Brexit outcome
 

That actually happened Feb 2016 when Dickhead Cameron called the vote.

Re: Brexit outcome
 

[QUOTE=DXBtoDOH;12533157]Ah, well. The Brexit shitstorm is intensifying. Tory polling have dropped sharply since the Chequers deal was announced. Knives are sharpening behind the scene. We are inching towards a point where psychosis (among all sides and parties) takes over pragmatism in politics and everything goes out the window.
Better stock up on the popcorn for when Parliament comes back from recess.I'm looking forward to the new Battle of Edgehill.[/QUOTE]

...Istm, that the tipping point has passed and there's no avoiding UK dissolution. From my location I've little 'street-sense' of mood, but this issue has riven the UK imo - and isn't slowing up. It'll be more than a 2018 version of Edgehill once it starts..... :nod:; - it reminds me of the SFRY.

Re: Brexit outcome
 

Probably the most astute thing I've heard said on the subject:

Entirely the politicians fault. They've kept the general public in the dark about what being in the EU means, because they know that the public will reject it, and now they need the public to understand the EU in order to make a rational choice.

Re: Brexit outcome
 

You're trolling right? Poll testing continually shows strong correlation between ignorance of how the EU works and opposition to EU membership, in the UK and right across the EU. On what possible basis do you claim to know the public will reject it when those countries where understanding of how the EU works is highest are also the ones where retaining membership polls highest? Ireland is an example, maybe because we are actually taught about EU institutions in civics classes from an early age and have had referenda on all treaty changes so the public are generally much more engaged and knowledgeable.

I had many arguments during the referendum campaign with Leave supporters who were full of false information about how the EU works, fed substantially by the right-wing viciously anti-EU press but also the more recent (as we now know) Russian-funded memes. They were so indoctrinated that they simply refused to accept what was factual. An example that continued to shock me was the number of people who insisted that the European parliament was not directly elected and just refused to believe otherwise even when the specific evidence was presented to them. In this vacuum all of the poisonous nonsense about "5 presidents" and straightening bananas found easy passage.

Politicians, not only but especially in the UK, were happy to blame the EU for various unpopular measures that they would have had to implement regardless. They (or unfortunately, more accurately, the British people) are now reaping the bitter harvest of this short-sighted irresponsibility.

Re: Brexit outcome
 

Like the Nice Treaty? When the result of the referendum doesn't match what the Euro-elite want they're told to stop being naughty peasants and go and vote again. For the right answer this time or there will be punishment.

Local democracy is anathema to the EU. That's why we voted out and we'll be better for it in the long run despite the unbelievable ineptitude of May's government.

Re: Brexit outcome
 

Blair promised a referendum on Lisbon but reneged because he knew the British would vote against it in a landslide.

We were never given a referendum on Maastricht. Because the politicians knew the British would vote against it.

If we had been allowed referendums and duly delivered the no vote I do wonder what would have happened. One would like to think that it'd have stopped the EU integration in its track and kept it as a customs union with little more than that. Or at least kept Britain outside it, in the single market but not subject to the four so called freedoms. And we wouldn't be going through this mess. I do remember reading somewhere that the EU strongly pressurised Blair not to give the referendum because they knew the British would vote against it and of all EU countries the UK was the one place that would actually honour the referendum outcome, and that would have thrown a huge spanner into the EU plans for greater integration and federalisation.

Re: Brexit outcome
 

Remain supporters are not full of false information about how the EU works?

Re: Brexit outcome
 

Thank you for your typically patronising comment about the Irish electorate, as usual completely distorting the actual events through the lens of anti-EU UK media. As they have consistently shown over the years in various referenda (and elections) on many topics, the Irish electorate will never be told what to do. The terms of the Nice treaty were adjusted as a result of the first referendum as the message to the government and the EU had been heard and thus it passed second time. The Irish electorate are used to referenda and no Irish government would ever have gotten away with posing such an idiotic and inept non-binary referendum proposition on EU membership as did the UK.

By the way, who are the "Euro elite"? Is that like (multi-millionaire investment banker) Steve Bannon's "global elite"? Just a nasty dog whistle code for Jews and homosexuals and anybody else we, the self-designated normal everyday non-elite people, don't like but want to dismiss as other and not one of us????

And the EU is actually far more democratic and transparent than the UK with it's archaic first past the post electoral system, making most parliamentary seats non-competitive, and arcane parliamentary rules. Not to mention the house of lords, hereditary monarchy, opaque funding of local authorities, over-centralisation of power in Whitehall, parliamentary expenses etc. These nonsensical claims about the EU such as "local democracy is anathema" are pumped out constantly yet simply do not stand up to any scrutiny. The European parliament is the most transparent elected body in the EU because it has to be. All the other institutions are either appointed by governments or made up of members of governments, each elected by their respective electorates. Where is the lack of democracy? Why is the command structure of NATO, which is far less transparent and has many more potentially devastating impacts on member populations, not subject to the same excoriation?

Re: Brexit outcome
 

Wow, and you wonder why the British have such a reputation for arrogance and superciliousness in Europe?

Re: Brexit outcome
 

Well I have a dream:-

David D as PM
Boris as Foreign Secretary
JRB as Chancellor
Farage as "Special envoy to the EU for Brexit responsibilities"

That quartet would get the non-elected EU shitting themselves.

Re: Brexit outcome
 

And they may actually get us out of the damn union!!!! May and Co are looking like keeping us in, in all but name