Originally Posted by captainflack (Post 12548208)

It's interesting to see the recent polling suggesting a significant shift, especially in labour constituencies, against brexit. So that there is now a significant majority of constituencies with majorities against brexit.

Obviously this is polling, but it's fairly good polling based on data that proved very accurate at the last election. And considering many people voting leave were assured that losing access to the single market was a preposterous remain scaremongering, it's perhaps not surprising.

The suggestion is that people are starting to realize that many of the promises made about leaving were false. But I think the biggest reason is simply that brexit at the time of the vote was seen as a vote against *both* parties and the political establishment. Whereas now, brexit is seen very much as a Tory policy, so labour leaning voters find it harder to support going over the top with the likes of Rees Mogg and Johnson.

There is a certain irony in that the right of the Tory party who claim to be carrying the torch for Thatcher are essentially dancing on her grave by taking the UK out of the single market. Thatcher pushed hard for it, was instrumental in ensuring it was robust with full acceptance of the four freedoms, largely because she feared otherwise the French would just use any loopholes to block car or agricultural imports (and they probably would). Thatcher sold the japanese the concept to get them to invest and save the UK car industry, and deregulated the city to encourage banks to come to London as a pan-European base. The Eurosceptic wing holds up her Bruges speech, but it was clear from that what Thatcher opposed was the cultural and political unification of Europe, and that the single market was essentially what she thought was the best bit and really the only bit she wanted. You have the feeling these zealots probably would have got nowhere when Thatcher was alive, because she'd have been pro single market and customs union. But once jesus is dead, all manner of chancers can go round saying they talk for him, and the gullible believe it.

It will be very interesting to see what happens. I think most of the people saying 'don't worry' don't seem to be actively involved in the kinds of things that will be heavily affected, such as customs, airlines, manufacturing, farming and so on. And almost all of those who are, seem to be getting more and more desperate.

On the plus side, now brexit is largely seen as a Tory thing, this will undoubtedly destroy the Tory party, and see them out of office for a generation, or possibly, forever. Which might be a very good thing, if it wasn't for the fact that Labour look like a sh1t show too.

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Originally Posted by TheShed (Post 12548445)

Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH (Post 12548498)

Valid observation and one that many ideological remainers ignore. Membership in the Euro was devastating for Greece in more ways than one, it flooded that country with a high value currency based on the German economy and with the low interest rates to match, allowing them to borrow huge sums (from German banks, natch) and completely distorted the realities of the Greek economic situation, and when it finally caught up the Greeks weren't allowed to default and get on with life (just like what Argentina and Mexico did, to use recent examples, default, get on and people forget and economy quickly rebuilds). And it's not just Greece, the Italian economy has suffered from Euro membership, a currency that is too valuable for Italy and makes it difficult for the Italians to compete with the northern countries. Italy is technically poorer off now than it was before it joined the Euro, adjusting for inflation.
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Originally Posted by csdf (Post 12548558)

But the UK doesn't participate in the single currency...

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Originally Posted by TheShed (Post 12548658)

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Originally Posted by TheShed (Post 12548773)

Originally Posted by TheShed (Post 12548658)

indeed. I was just using the failing Euro currency as an example of how different measures are required for differing economies,

Originally Posted by littlejimmy (Post 12548906)

That's fair enough, but we are now looking at having no membership of anything at all and entering god-knows-what with WTO rules. A Norway or Switzerland EFTA style deal would make more sense, surely? That was what a lot of Brexiteers were arguing for during the referendum campaign.

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Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH (Post 12549173)

Can we change topics slightly and talk about Jeremy Corbyn?

Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH (Post 12549173)

Can we change topics slightly and talk about Jeremy Corbyn?

What a f****** antisemitic terrorist sympathiser.

To quote a former Labour supporting mate, I'm more mortified that Corbyn is leader of Labour and a prospective future PM than the embarrassingly incompetent May government.

Corbyn once said that if you don't criticise or fight injustice you are condoning the same injustice. But I guess Jews aren't included in that sentiment.