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Re: Brexit Negotiations
Originally Posted by uk_grenada
(Post 12337176)
You dont understand TIR do you. The carnet and online handling makes admin a lot quicker for the receiving authority.
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Re: Brexit Negotiations
A former trade minister states no more than the bleedin' obvious when he points out that Brexit is very unlikely to address any of the underlying causes of much of the Leave vote.
This is because due to years of anti-EU disinformation, a huge number of people were erroneously blaming the EU for problems that had little or nothing to do with it (as we can see from this very thread), and which will most likely get worse after we leave because the conditions that created those problems - most specifically the increased replacement of people by technology, a far greater threat to the workforce than immigrants ever were - will be greatly exacerbated by the need for the UK to become more competitive with lower-waged economies. |
Re: Brexit Negotiations
Originally Posted by captainflack
(Post 12337179)
The chancellor disagrees with you. I suspect he has more information than you got from the daily express.
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Re: Brexit Negotiations
Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH
(Post 12337096)
Exactly. Blaming it on the Tory leadership is just a red herring.
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Re: Brexit Negotiations
Originally Posted by uk_grenada
(Post 12337176)
You dont understand TIR do you. The carnet and online handling makes admin a lot quicker for the receiving authority. Goods leaving the eu will now either require this or potentially get slowed up which means potential loss of their business/spoilage.
What proportion of containers do you imagine get looked at now? I knew a couple of years ago how many left felixtowe - like every 30 seconds - you think many are scrutinised? In terms of containers, I really don't understand the connection. Very little TIR cargo goes via seafreight, it's nearly exclusively roadfreight (although the option extends to any mode/combination of transport providing that atleast one portion of the journey is overland). The amount of containers that are scanned inbound/outbound in the UK isn't likely to change due to Brexit. |
Re: Brexit Negotiations
I respectfully disagree.
You're just in denial. Look at the UKIP. They turned out to be almost all Labour voters who flocked back to Labour once the election was over and helped deliver the shock election results that deprived May of her majority when just weeks earlier we were all expecting them to convert to full Tory voters. That itself alone tells you how deep seated the anger was. The anti-EU feelings was pretty broad across much of England outside London. If people just bothered to look for it. The establishment and the press did a fabulous job squashing any public discussion and dissent and calling any one with anti-EU sentiment crackpots despite very legitimate concerns over immigration and EU legislation. Remember, Blair himself promised a referendum before signing the treaty and went ahead and signed the treaty because he knew he'd lose the referendum. And that was back when the EU was much more popular than it is today.
Originally Posted by littlejimmy
(Post 12337193)
I respectfully disagree. The wound was only small...as in the level of anti-EU feeling was pretty small and confined to UKIP and a few Tories. Cameron's gamble opened up the wound and made it worse...and Boris, who had been stirring shit up for years but was pretty much a remainer, couldn't miss the opportunity to make a play for power, and Gove joined in, aided and abetted by Murdoch and Dacre who wanted to punish Cameron for Leveson. It was a **** up. The referendum wasn't necessary, and even if you think it was, the way it was enacted was farcical in the extreme. The Bullingdon boys played their little power games and left us where were are...and we all know they won't be affected by whatever happens.
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Re: Brexit Negotiations
Originally Posted by captainflack
(Post 12337177)
This is exactly why there will be a border unless the UK comes up with a workable plan.
The only ways to avoid a border: (a) UK remains in customs union (b) NI remains in customs union, customs border moves to irish sea between UK and NI (c) Ireland leaves EU, joins UK customs union (d) Northern Ireland votes to leave UK, join Ireland. (c) is out of the question. Ireland spent a very long time fighting to be independent from the UK, and since then it's prospered and is one of the richest countries in the EU - significantly richer than the UK (GDP / person). It's not going to leave the EU or join the UK regardless. (a) seems unlikely, other than for perhaps a couple of years as a transitional deal, unless the UK changes its stance. Perhaps closer to d-day, this might become more likely, when it's clear the UK is running out of time and is at the point of having to do a Greece and eat sh1t, because it has no alternative (b) this might be a good long term solution. Unfortunately, the Tories are propped up by the DUP, who will never accept it. They don't want any kind of checks between NI and the mainland, or any different status for NI. (d) possible longer term due to demographics. Also, I know quite a few protestant northern irish who lack the zealotry of older hardcore protestants, and are very pro-EU, and hold both passports. I think at least some of those are leaning towards reunification, because ireland is richer, and the risk of a border coming back will make NI much poorer at a time when the UK is unlikely to have more money to lavish on buying DUP support. It's a mess, but it's certain there will not be an open border unless there is a deal along the lines of one of the four options above. |
Re: Brexit Negotiations
Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH
(Post 12337315)
The establishment and the press did a fabulous job squashing any public discussion and dissent and calling any one with anti-EU sentiment crackpots despite very legitimate concerns over immigration and EU legislation
As for "legitimate concerns over immigration and EU legislation" - most Leavers have absolutely no idea how the EU really works, as demonstrated in this very thread by IKnowNothing parroting all the usual tabloid cliches that have no basis in fact. If such people had ever bothered to investigate how the EU actually works, instead of just willingly swallowing all the myths and lies from the tabloid Press over the last couple of decades, well... |
Re: Brexit Negotiations
Isnt it strange how project fear is still alive and well - but now its not just from the official version from the bremain/bremoaners, but the other side too. I guess its just a natural escalation of the conflict.
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Re: Brexit Negotiations
Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH
(Post 12337315)
I respectfully disagree.
You're just in denial. Look at the UKIP. They turned out to be almost all Labour voters who flocked back to Labour once the election was over and helped deliver the shock election results that deprived May of her majority when just weeks earlier we were all expecting them to convert to full Tory voters. That itself alone tells you how deep seated the anger was. The anti-EU feelings was pretty broad across much of England outside London. If people just bothered to look for it. The establishment and the press did a fabulous job squashing any public discussion and dissent and calling any one with anti-EU sentiment crackpots despite very legitimate concerns over immigration and EU legislation. Remember, Blair himself promised a referendum before signing the treaty and went ahead and signed the treaty because he knew he'd lose the referendum. And that was back when the EU was much more popular than it is today. Also a lot of the voting for Leave was for disparate reasons. It was a very binary yes/no vote, but if you asked 20 voters why they voted out and what out meant you'd get a lot of different answers. A lot of the anti-EU stuff in the press was driven by the likes of BoJo who in his previous life as a journo loved putting out stories about loony regulations about bendy bananas, and the rest of the right wing press lapped it up and banged on about it...very infleuntially in the likes of the Mail, the Express and the Sun. Despite what you say about anti-EU feeling being there for a while, we still had a pretty close result. EDIT: pretty much what Eeyore said. |
Re: Brexit Negotiations
Could be some good smuggling opportunities ahead on the NI/Irish border.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a3613041.html https://www.theguardian.com/politics...g-irish-border Brexit will open up 'smugglers' paradise warns Irish senator | UK | News | Express.co.uk Irish smugglers’ Brexit bonanza – POLITICO 500km long border.....get in there... |
Re: Brexit Negotiations
Originally Posted by uk_grenada
(Post 12337363)
Isnt it strange how project fear is still alive and well - but now its not just from the official version from the bremain/bremoaners, but the other side too
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Re: Brexit Negotiations
Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH
(Post 12337315)
I respectfully disagree.
You're just in denial. Look at the UKIP. They turned out to be almost all Labour voters who flocked back to Labour once the election was over and helped deliver the shock election results that deprived May of her majority when just weeks earlier we were all expecting them to convert to full Tory voters. That itself alone tells you how deep seated the anger was. The anti-EU feelings was pretty broad across much of England outside London. If people just bothered to look for it. The establishment and the press did a fabulous job squashing any public discussion and dissent and calling any one with anti-EU sentiment crackpots despite very legitimate concerns over immigration and EU legislation. Remember, Blair himself promised a referendum before signing the treaty and went ahead and signed the treaty because he knew he'd lose the referendum. And that was back when the EU was much more popular than it is today. Sadly, the snowflakes need to know you AREN'T entitled to anything, you need to work and make money - no-one should be given anything in ANY country unless they pay something into it. |
Re: Brexit Negotiations
Gotta give a round of applause to Dennis Skinner (Never thought I'd ever say that), as he backed his constituents (79% voted to leave), against his party.
Well done The Beast of Bolsover |
Re: Brexit Negotiations
Originally Posted by Eeyore
(Post 12337346)
As for "legitimate concerns over immigration and EU legislation" - most Leavers have absolutely no idea how the EU really works,
The four freedoms (free movement of goods, services, capital and workers) are essential to how a single market functions. Because these are the four components of business and trade. Free movement of workers has not cost brexitters their jobs. Look at unemployment - it's at record lows. People think if they stop immigration, they'll suddenly see their wages double. As if their employers can absorb such a hit. What would happen is that suddenly you'd find a whole bunch of UK companies would decide that since the workers cannot come to them, they'll have to go to the the workers. And if the UK has frictionless trade, it will be easy to export the stuff back to the UK tariff free. Freedom of movement has kept higher cost countries like the UK and Germany in the game, because it helps those countries that have successful economies fill jobs and keep costs from becoming unsustainable. The worst possible outcome for the UK would be that it's stupid enough to negotiate 'frictionless' trade with the EU, while allowing it to cap immigration. Because nothing would clean the UK out more quickly. The EU won't agree to this for political reasons though, which is probably good news for the UK - although if it doesn't do any kind of deal, it might all be irrelevant, because the UK will grind to a halt in days anyway. |
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