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The Beeb has an article on Emiratisation.

The Beeb has an article on Emiratisation.

Old Apr 1st 2012, 3:29 pm
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Default The Beeb has an article on Emiratisation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17485422

According to the Insead business school, Emiratis make up between 60% and 70% of the public sector but less than 5% of employees in the private sector.

And Nasser thinks he knows why.

Employ Emirati

"The government enables a better environment for work," Nasser says. "Maybe the private sector isn't putting enough effort to attract and to have local people work with them."
I wonder how much of it is due to expats put off by real and or perceived hassles associated with employing locals?



"Back at the telecoms company, Nasser has a different view.

I would advise my colleagues, brothers and sisters to lower their expectations, be more patient, focus on your education and acquire skills and build good relations with your colleagues - even the foreign ones," he says.
The "even the foreign ones" comment kinda lets the cat out of the bag, doesn't it.
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Old Apr 2nd 2012, 5:11 am
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Default Re: The Beeb has an article on Emiratisation.

If we have the British equivalent of Emiratisation in the UK we'd be called racist.

Apparent we can only give preference to hiring people if they are not white and male...hence quotas in some parts of the UK for non-white males, women and disabled people.

In my view people should be allowed to rise and fall on their own merits without help from governments. Telling people they need help to get a job because they are black, or asian or female or whatever is terribly insulting.

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Old Apr 2nd 2012, 10:33 am
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Default Re: The Beeb has an article on Emiratisation.

Originally Posted by Norm_uk View Post
If we have the British equivalent of Emiratisation in the UK we'd be called racist.

Apparent we can only give preference to hiring people if they are not white and male...hence quotas in some parts of the UK for non-white males, women and disabled people.

In my view people should be allowed to rise and fall on their own merits without help from governments. Telling people they need help to get a job because they are black, or asian or female or whatever is terribly insulting.

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As a feminist I am all for equality and a level playing field, so I have reservations about quotas. There have been various press articles recently about companies needing more women on their boards, which is true, but I'd hate to think I was ever given a job purely based on my gender.

The all-boys-together attitude of some all male boards is repugnant and it has been shown that a mixed management is good for a company. I really don't know what the answer is apart from people being more open-minded and have flexible modern working practices.
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Old Apr 2nd 2012, 11:08 am
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Default Re: The Beeb has an article on Emiratisation.

Originally Posted by Meow View Post
As a feminist I am all for equality and a level playing field, so I have reservations about quotas. There have been various press articles recently about companies needing more women on their boards, which is true, but I'd hate to think I was ever given a job purely based on my gender.

The all-boys-together attitude of some all male boards is repugnant and it has been shown that a mixed management is good for a company. I really don't know what the answer is apart from people being more open-minded and have flexible modern working practices.
If it's about equality it shouldn't matter if the board is all male, all female or mixed?

I think there's a fine line between saying there's room for improvement and saying a company "needs" more women on the board. Must all companies be mixed gender, mixed race with the right number of gays, lesbians and minority religions in order to be seen as unbiased and decent.

I still say let people rise and fall on their own merits. If it can be proven someone wasn't hired simply because they were male or female that's grounds for legal action...otherwise let the free market decide

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Old Apr 2nd 2012, 11:37 am
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Default Re: The Beeb has an article on Emiratisation.

Originally Posted by Norm_uk View Post
If it's about equality it shouldn't matter if the board is all male, all female or mixed?

I think there's a fine line between saying there's room for improvement and saying a company "needs" more women on the board. Must all companies be mixed gender, mixed race with the right number of gays, lesbians and minority religions in order to be seen as unbiased and decent.

I still say let people rise and fall on their own merits. If it can be proven someone wasn't hired simply because they were male or female that's grounds for legal action...otherwise let the free market decide

N.

It shouldn't matter, but if certain parts of the population appear to be excluded it does. If everything was equal, there would be more women in boardrooms, as they make up a large percentage of the working population. The free market isn't that free when the old school tie comes into play.

It's not about having to have a certain number of women, gays etc, it's about everyone having an equal opportunity to succeed. Certain people have a large advantage due to their background or family connections when they are not the best person for a job.
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Old Apr 2nd 2012, 11:45 am
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Default Re: The Beeb has an article on Emiratisation.

Originally Posted by Norm_uk View Post
If it's about equality it shouldn't matter if the board is all male, all female or mixed?

I think there's a fine line between saying there's room for improvement and saying a company "needs" more women on the board. Must all companies be mixed gender, mixed race with the right number of gays, lesbians and minority religions in order to be seen as unbiased and decent.

I still say let people rise and fall on their own merits. If it can be proven someone wasn't hired simply because they were male or female that's grounds for legal action...otherwise let the free market decide

N.
As much as I do agree agree with your sentiment, sadly..ethnic nepotism is rife. Well, I don't consider it all negative..it definitely helps new arrivals at times, but I have friends in the UK with foreign sounding names who really struggle for work although they have impressive CV's. Women have not been chosen for roles because employers don't want to employ someone who might suddenly get pregnant, etc, etc...I appreciate your libertarian stance, but if we can't moderate ourselves what is a viable other route?
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Old Apr 4th 2012, 7:29 am
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Default Re: The Beeb has an article on Emiratisation.

Originally Posted by Meow View Post
It shouldn't matter, but if certain parts of the population appear to be excluded it does. If everything was equal, there would be more women in boardrooms, as they make up a large percentage of the working population. The free market isn't that free when the old school tie comes into play.

It's not about having to have a certain number of women, gays etc, it's about everyone having an equal opportunity to succeed. Certain people have a large advantage due to their background or family connections when they are not the best person for a job.
'Appearing' to be excluded doesn't mean they are being excluded...most people, male or female do not apply for board level positions anyway.

We have to be very careful here - why must more women be in board rooms exactly? When will there be enough women in certain positions and who gets to decide these figures? Me? You? The government?

Except in clear cases of racism and sexism I feel no one has any business telling any business who it should hire or not hire. I say this as someone who had experienced racial discrimination at work back in the UK. Things are changing for the better and continue to do so. I don't think we need quotas to give more equality in opportunity.

Quotas are as racist and sexist as the old boys clubs. It's all discrimination. People should be allowed to rise and fall on their own merits, not on how many we feel should work at certain levels so it all looks balanced and 'equal' in the eyes of certain people.

My two cents worth

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Old Apr 4th 2012, 7:45 am
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Default Re: The Beeb has an article on Emiratisation.

Originally Posted by Paracletus View Post
As much as I do agree agree with your sentiment, sadly..ethnic nepotism is rife. Well, I don't consider it all negative..it definitely helps new arrivals at times, but I have friends in the UK with foreign sounding names who really struggle for work although they have impressive CV's. Women have not been chosen for roles because employers don't want to employ someone who might suddenly get pregnant, etc, etc...I appreciate your libertarian stance, but if we can't moderate ourselves what is a viable other route?
We not going to remove ethnic tribalism in countries with longstanding native cultures, and certainly not overnight. The UK is light years ahead in terms of fair play than most countries, including many EU states. One of my arguments for improving the UK immigration system involves inviting foreigners who want to stay to adopt British names in order to integrate into the system better. Of course this is just my opinion - not a policy I'm secretly making once my armed takeover succeeds

The argument against potential pregnancy as a barrier for not hiring women is purely economic, not discrimination against being female in terms of ability etc. There has to be a trade off between an employer not wanting to incur the high costs of maternity leave and the right of a woman to have babies when she's ready and able. In a truly free market the companies who can pay out maternity leave will attract more young female staff in any case...if the government should force legislation to make ALL companies comply is another issue. A small business may not be able to afford to pay a new staff member for months of leave but a large one will be able to.

I still think the free market is a better decision maker than any government official.

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Old Apr 4th 2012, 7:48 am
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Default Re: The Beeb has an article on Emiratisation.

We shall have to agree to disagree Norm.

And I have experienced gender discrimination in the workplace many times as well as racism as a child. It can affect us all.
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Old Apr 5th 2012, 6:11 am
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Default Re: The Beeb has an article on Emiratisation.

Originally Posted by Meow View Post
We shall have to agree to disagree Norm.

And I have experienced gender discrimination in the workplace many times as well as racism as a child. It can affect us all.
It's not much of a disagreement - we are on exactly the same page when it comes to discrimination against women....I just don't think quotas are anything more reverse discrimination.

The emancipation of women is still the biggest weapon we have against ignorance and poverty in the world.

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