**** the poor
 

Interesting video, worth a watch -

http://www.upworthy.com/a-guy-hung-a...-worked?c=ufb1

Do you care enough to argue, but not enough to give?

Re: **** the poor
 

OO I like your tag line red sheep- I think they should use that in their campaign.

Although I think his statements are not actually comparable. Saying fork the poor is an aggressive term and would imply that the guy is suggesting some form of genocide type scenario. Help the poor is very vague- what poor? I wouldn't give to someone with that sign as 'the poor' aren't exactly a registered charity. If he had marketed himself better he may have done a bit better.

Having said that I have stood for many hours outside supermarkets and in town centers collecting money and it is really pitiful how little people give especially if the charity is one lesser heard of. You'd be lucky to raise 20 quid in 4 hours. A bit more at Christmas or on a particularly cold day when people feel a bit guilty or sorry for you. It is also illegal to shake your money tin which I think is ridiculous. Although I would say that kind of charity fund raising has had its day- people would rather be sponsored to jump out a plane and raise the money on justgiving.com.

Re: **** the poor
 

Increasingly, people will only give if it involves a "fashion statement" or something for them (eg a free sponsored trip to Peru) "What is in it for me ?" is the plea of today's Yoof. The concept of Oblation is alien to them.

Re: **** the poor
 

Correct.

[*awaits a plethora of posters ready to blame Thatcherism*]

Re: **** the poor
 

Filmed in the UK where poverty does not exist except where self inflicted.

Re: **** the poor
 

wtf :blink:

are you trying to be sardonic, or is this said in all seriousness?

Re: **** the poor
 

The UK has a well functioning safety net which prevents the absolute poverty that you can see in places like India or parts of Africa. Poverty in the UK is relative. Kids do not starve to death in the UK through lack of money. They don't have to work when they are 6 picking through rubbish looking for things to sell.

There is no true poverty in the UK.

Re: **** the poor
 

Also correct.

Re: **** the poor
 

Bollocks. Such a narrow minded, blinkered view. Not that I expect anything less from such a bitter old man.

Re: **** the poor
 

Scamp you are precisely the sort who will only give if it involves a free trip to Peru, paid for by the gullible. Enjoy your day in Do-Buy, the Consumerist Paradise !

Re: **** the poor
 

Not a 100% effective safety net though. Perhaps 'justifiable losses' is an acceptable term to use in circumstances like this? http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...r-benefits-cut

Re: **** the poor
 

:goodpost:

Re: **** the poor
 

In that sense, no. At least the UK is more socialist than India or say Nigeria (with extremes of wealth, and space ambitions whilst still receiving "aid"), in that it does have a safety net. However, single mums with 2-3 kids living in a one room B&B with no breakfast as part of "emergency" council accommodation for years is a pretty piss poor safety net. But, yes, at least her kids aren't picking through rubbish; unlike, say the gypsy kids who are also in the UK.

Re: **** the poor
 

That would just be a 'B' then?

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...highest-decade

6 weeks is the maximum meant for this although the article says this has been breached. Whilst unfortunate and uncomfortable I'm not sure it can be classed as poverty. The families are housed, provided money to feed themselves and have a system in place to ensure that they get moved to more suitable accommodation when possible. A far cry from the privations suffered in nations with true poverty.

Have you any links to examples of families living in B(&B) for years?

Re: **** the poor
 

I'm exactly not. I've raised a fair chunk of money for charity over the years through nothing but hard work.

Your life must be so miserable. I've never seen you post anything remotely positive. If someone can get people to donate for them to jump out a plane or got to Peru(?) or something and it raises money for charity it's hardly the end of the world. Definitely not cause for you to brand all young people as selfish.

Re: **** the poor
 

http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn02110.pdf

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...amilies-crisis

http://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/a...d-b-b-all.html

http://socialwelfare.bl.uk/subject-a...STMAS_2013.pdf

Re: **** the poor
 

you live with your children in a single room, with minimal access to cooking facilities, your children sharing a bathroom with strange men, witnessing drugs violence sexual assault, and tell me that is "uncomfortable" and not "poverty".

Re: **** the poor
 

I'm not convinced. This is accommodation provided free of charge that is warm and safe that has bathrooms and cooking facilities. On top of this they are given an amount of money in order to spend on what they want, food, clothes whatever. It is far from ideal for most of us, it is uncomfortable and probably scary, but is a million miles away from the type of poverty you see in countries where kids are dying through not having enough food.

I don't want to come across as unfeeling but from the examples you have given the safety net is working. One of the examples you have posted has said that she has to feed her kids at KFC and McDonalds ... the horror .. Plus they have free schooling and health care ...

So provided free of charge:

Housing
Health Care
Schooling
Food
Heating
Spending money

Howay man, it is not poverty is it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty

Re: **** the poor
 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...n-9249750.html One of our nations finest died due to poverty after bureaucratic incompetence in the safety net? I'm sure he was shirking and it was a lifestyle choice [sarcasm warning]

Re: **** the poor
 

Spot on.

Times have changed and people now have the opportunity to raise money for charity whilst also doing something that they want to do (my wife raised a lot of money for an orphanage in Sri Lanka by doing a parachute jump).

The Scottish whinger, however, still seems to be living in the Saudi Arabia of the 1970's.

Re: **** the poor
 

You're a troll. Bye.

Re: **** the poor
 

Definition of 'troll'? "Someone who disagrees with someone else"??

Re: **** the poor
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25287068 Most people in 'poverty' classed as having job. Most kids in 'poverty' have a working parent. 38% od the current generation is currently graduating from university so hopefully that changes. If it doesn't, then our society is a lie surely, and everything we understand about the causes of poverty, the deserving and undeserving, needs a rethink..

Re: **** the poor
 

I agree with this to an extent, sponsoring someone to go on holiday and fulfill there life's ambition of climbing Kilimanjaro whilst raising two grand for charity seems rather redundant to me when they're spending that much or more on flights, equipment et al, and a tour company is making a nice little buck out of the deal


Does anyone have to feed here kids at KFC and McDonalds, ever? When poverty is defined as doing that, rather than kids eating out of bins or living in sewers and sniffing glue then the relativity of the hardship is obvious.


Relatively, in the context of UK or 1st world society and standards it is. In a global context it's very, very far from it.


But, the gypsy kids are doing so because their parents have chosen that lifestyle by rejecting the trappings of the welfare state, or at least the idea of contributing to it in anyway, and instead live on the edges of society funding themselves through levels of criminality.

Re: **** the poor
 

It's basically a debate over Absolute or Relative Poverty.

The numbers of people in the UK in absolute poverty will be very, very small.

The numbers in relative poverty - according to income gaps etc, will be a decent chunk I expect. However, according to an old BBC article, 60% of those in 'poverty' are homeowners - BBC link

Re: **** the poor
 

Relative poverty never goes away. It'll always be there - by its very definition it cannot be solved.

Let's face it, we'd all rather be poor in the UK than (say) India, anywhere in Africa, Philippines, or even in the world's two largest economies: USA, or China.

Re: **** the poor
 

Your dummy landed about 6ft from the pram. I'll get the maid to fetch it. :)

Re: **** the poor
 

Exactly.

Re: **** the poor
 

It can be termed as relative wealth and then it is instantly solved.

Re: **** the poor
 

"Look how wonderful: I am, doing all this for the poor !" Bollocks. Reminds me of that conman behind Liveaid..

Re: **** the poor
 

lol

Re: **** the poor
 

I would like to chart of see happiness as a function of per capita GDP. I think that would be quite interesting.

Re: **** the poor
 

Didn't LiveAid raise something like £150million?

Surely it can't all just have been wasted?

Re: **** the poor
 

It wasn't and LiveAid was a wonderful thing. To call Bob Geldof a conman is just nasty; as are many of the disingenuous comments on this thread.

Re: **** the poor
 

Agreed. Problem with this thread appears to be what poverty means to one person isn't to another.

Re: **** the poor
 

Yes and that some seem to think that a family living in one room is acceptable and 'their own fault'.

Re: **** the poor
 

Here's what it means to the UN, World Bank and Copenhagen Declaration:

United Nations: Fundamentally, poverty is the inability of getting choices and opportunities, a violation of human dignity. It means lack of basic capacity to participate effectively in society. It means not having enough to feed and clothe a family, not having a school or clinic to go to, not having the land on which to grow one’s food or a job to earn one’s living, not having access to credit. It means insecurity, powerlessness and exclusion of individuals, households and communities. It means susceptibility to violence, and it often implies living in marginal or fragile environments, without access to clean water or sanitation.

World Bank: Poverty is pronounced deprivation in well-being, and comprises many dimensions. It includes low incomes and the inability to acquire the basic goods and services necessary for survival with dignity. Poverty also encompasses low levels of health and education, poor access to clean water and sanitation, inadequate physical security, lack of voice, and insufficient capacity and opportunity to better one’s life.

Copenhagen Declaration: Absolute poverty is a condition characterized by severe deprivation of basic human needs, including food, safe drinking water, sanitation facilities, health, shelter, education and information. It depends not only on income but also on access to social services. The term 'absolute poverty' is sometimes synonymously referred to as 'extreme poverty.'

By those global definitions, it's hard to think anyone in the UK lives in true poverty.

Re: **** the poor
 

It can most definitely be 'their own fault' at times, let's not kid ourselves that everyone in those situations is a helpless victim. The proliferation of people who take lack of personal responsibility for their actions and the consequences of those actions has created a huge drain on the welfare system in the UK.

Re: **** the poor
 

Living in one room is probably what about 2/3 of the world's people do. Very few are forced into this in the UK unless they have materially fallen out of the system - normally as a result of drugs or abuse -- arguably "self-created problems".

I'm not saying that this is acceptable. In 1980 - around 55% of the world's population were on a dollar a day. This is around 25% now.

Worst poverty in my mind is probably by corrupt governments (e.g. Nigeria, CAR) or political tensions (West Bank/ Gaza). Poverty created directly by things that could be resolved. But we'll overlook those unnecessary details.

Re: **** the poor
 

For not seeing things from your perspective? That's a bit harsh, but I guess it is easier than debating any of the points I have raised. The Internet version of sticking your fingers in your ears and singing LaLaLa I suppose.