No scare tactics, no rose-tinted glasses.

We've recently been speaking to several people who think that the UK is a HUGE step back from Canada (where we live)... in fact, some young man at my daughter's camp is telling her horror stories of how everything is SO expensive that everyone lives in poverty and how there is nothing there to go to, etc, etc, etc.

I'm a realist. I know that certain things are more expensive, like petrol. But there are things that are cheaper (and yes, I went online to "fake shop" a grocer basket and it was cheaper EVEN with exchange than what I'd pay here at home.

SO, which is it... is life the same wherever you go or is the UK really crazy expensive without a single decent paying (say 30-35 thousand GBP a year) and can you live on that (family of four who know what frugality means)?

Our monthly expenses as far as I can tell:
rent, council tax, and utilities
food and transport
small budget for clothing (probably cheap end or charity shops)
and mobile phones (times two or maybe three)

that's pretty much it. We don't eat out, we don't have "cable" (whatever that is over there) as we don't have a TV. We probably won't have a car right off as we'd like to use public transit.

Are we being realistic? What (for those in the know) do you think those things would cost us in say... I don't know, east midlands area?

I'm seriously starting to panic with how much negative I've heard this past two weeks... my resolve is taking a beating. We WANT to be there, but we don't WANT to mess ourselves up financially either. We'll be going "debt free" - and would really like to stay that way. Is that realistic, do you think?

I think average pay is around £26000 isn't it? And that's distorted by the higher paid.

I read something a couple of weeks ago about low and middle income earners needing pay rises above inflation for ten years before they got to something like £22k, which seems to confirm that most people actually earn quite a bit less than average.

However, it does seem that many Brits in Canada (if the Canada forums are anything to go by) are doing the sort of work that gets big wages, so they probably could get the better paying jobs in the UK too.

Your assumption that you can survive using public transport may be unrealistic because there were (are?) areas with housing estates even near to London, inside the M25, that only have an hourly bus service. The further you go from the largest cities the worse public transport gets. Yes, you CAN get by, and (before I get pounced on ), many do rely solely on public transport, but you will restrict yourself on where you can live, especially if your job is not close to the transport hub in the city where you live. .... Getting a bus into and then out of a city center to commute from one suburb to another can be a massive waste of time.

Edit: another thought is to aim to settle in a moderate sized town or city such as Worcester, Gloucester, or Norwich, and buy bicycles!

I'll concede the public transport thing if way out in a rural area, but populated Britain (if tha' sees what I mean), is smaller/closer. There are buses everywhere................having said that I haven't lived there for 36 years..........

Your overall question pondhopper: a very very valid one! There seems to be little middle ground on this subject. People are either fine (maybe not even comfortably well off, but OK),-or they see their country as a complete sewer!!!

Each and every view is coloured by individual bias = no reality but perception.

It all has to be balanced against this, plus the ongoing disparaging of the UK, here in Australia, both by Aus's and recent UK arrivals.

For the former, the UK has been a 'bloodsport' for years (I had my place stripped by a clearance company a few weeks ago-they broke for lunch and all I got was laughter about returning to all that rain and mud and..unemployment.....and terrorists..........and it being the fault of those people...........and 'why would you want to go back there'...............and,......and...-The cast iron fireplace set was on the verandah right by them. Never was that cast iron poker so close to being pressed back into service...).
The latter because they left the UK for a better life of course. Ergo: The UK is the pits.
In the same conversation with my two clearance cretins, was the statement that 'the British really like Australians don't they?' And so they do. Would that it was reciprocal; but it isn't.

Which is one of the reasons I'm leaving.

I think the move back would have to be harder for those who are on average income/have kids/have to find property/jobs. I cannot speak for them, as a retiree, but it would be much tougher.

I am more and more convinced however, that it is tough for migrants anywhere. A lot of those who went to Spain had their bubble burst; and returned.

I'm not such a damn fool as not to realise the problems in Britain, but the greatest problem of all in my opinion is how Brit is talked about.

It has been disparaged by so many of its own people for decades, and like a good tag team, this has been picked up and expanded upon by so many in so many other countries. It is almost the 'done thing' to bag Britain; it's traditional.

The truth is that in this world today of greed and selfishness, most every country has problems.
Where I am in South Australia we are touted to have the second highest power costs on the planet. How can that be? We are 'living the dream'.

It is because Australia is promoted, and the UK is disparaged. (The two I can speak about). Simple as that.

Am I worried also about what I'll find? Yes. For me though, there is no other choice. I don't fancy being on the bones of my derrier, and I fervently hope that won't happen, but I am willing to take the risk in order to be home, rather than being 'on the outside' as I have been for so long.

Another thing is marring it for me. Let me be totally un-PC: this is a White concerns conversation isn't it?
I am of mixed culture, and am sadly fairly certain that I might already have come up against racism. There is more than one way to communicate on BE......
That has unsettled me and has already altered my view about where I'm going.

Not to worry hey? I pass for White, they'll never know......

As has been said unfortunately ex pats love to run the country down and in my experience come out with the most ridiculous 'facts' about this country and of course the locals lap it all up. I can only speak for us of course and I can say hand on heart that we certainly arent finding it expensive, the opposite in fact. Yes petrol is more expensive but I now pay £20 road tax as opposed to $600 registration. There are many similar experiences but of course I cant comment on Canada.

Income levels vary. ONS figures - average household income 36k. Average individual London income also 36k. Average private sector income a shade under 24K average public sector income a shade over 26 K. Which does Not add up, as private sector is more than three quarters of workforce.

BUT 650,000 job losses in the public sector so far, and about 1.4 million new jobs in the private in the last two years. Which would argue for wage growth surely?
But wages are NOT keeping pace with inflation. Net loss of earning power over the past five years is about 8 percent after inflation. (personally I think it is much more).

UK very much regionalised at the moment. House prices and rents on a steady upward trend in London and themSouth East. Prices falling in parts of he North.
Housing costs are sky high in London my daughter and her OH pay 1400 for a one bed flat, my son 600 for a room.
Public transport is still pretty good. Of course in remoter areas, not so frequent, but also much less demand.
Trains are full - considerable investment in rolling stock has been met with even more considerable growth in passenger numbers. Not much more expansion possible as new lines would never get approved.
Health service creaky. Changes to GPs contracts 10 years ago mean many refuse to cover out of hours, and often only do appointments - which in many surgeries can only be made on the day!
Which has occasioned an upsurge in A and E admissions at hospitals, who are also suffering from the rewriting of doctors contracts AND the Working Times Directive.
Education - we all hear about the UK dropping down league tables. Is it true? Or are others climbing up? There is much debate about the latest reforms, but whether you believe standards are finally improving or not, there is no suggestion that hey are slipping. grade inflation seems to have been stopped, so we should soon be able to compare like with like.
Basic services water sewage power all expensive, we are told to,pay for environmental improvements. Shale we are told will lower our bills by 25 percent? Maybe the gas will lift all those flying pigs.
All of which sounds a bit dire But it is not. The UK is very much a first world country still.it is coping with the aftermath of the credit bubble better than most.
Most economic commentators are still full of doom and gloom, but some are beginning to change their tune. the OECD sees above trend growth, barring a collapse in the EZ, as do several others.
Personally I have always had enormous faith in the inventiveness and industry of my countrymen, both old and new, and I see no reason to change that optimism.

But hey that is only my opinion. Hope it helps. Best of British anyway!

To two people who referred to "rural" and "remote areas". There is a developed area (typical suburban housing estates of closely packed semis) INSIDE the M25, not far from Heathrow, that is a four mile stretch of road (so not reasonably walkable for work, school or shopping) that has one bus per hour. Be careful when looking at housing, even relatively urban areas can have poor public transport.

Now you've got me reading every word carefully to see who the other culprit is.

It's Bigglesworth. And BTW, that is "peak service", buses stop completely before 7pm.

I think it must be me! Sorry!

living part of the time in rural ( or remote ) France, a bus an hour sounds pretty good to me.
Actually, when I am in the UK, in the SouthEast (neither rural nor remote) it still sounds pretty good.

Well I tell yer', that's done it for me! I'll cancel the shipping and get a refund on my airfare. What a country!!

We lived in suburban Brisbane and would have killed for a bus service that bad LOL

Where we live in rural Canada now - NO busses an hour. So, that at least would be one heckuvan improvement!

I REALLY appreciate everyone's input - this is what I was trying to find out. Thank you!

I don't live there, but everyone I know is doing well by any objective standard. They do like to complain and run the country down, which clouds the issue.